SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology • Hacker News Board

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#61

Post by BurningFrog » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

shuckles wrote: post #47

BurningFrog wrote: post #43

No mention of the scope. What types of emerging technology falls under this office? Will it require approving every new app used within city limits? My cynical take is that this is just another gatekeeper to pay off and appease. The city wants more money from tech.

No the purpose of this legislation is to provide a one stop shop for businesses that would have to interact with city departments anyways: scooters with SFMTA, rental startups with DBI or planning. It is not in theory supposed to be a gatekeeper for businesses that can operate independently of local regulation, though Mar has written bad legislation before. The Hacker News outrage is non-sensical. These are businesse…

I'm not ruling out that you're right. Only time will tell, I guess.

Though, if this is such a reasonable, common sense idea, there must be other cities that have also implemented something like it. What are their track records?

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#62

Post by SkyMarshal » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 4:46 PM UTC

One problem with this is that's ex-ante, not ex-post. Eg, it asks a bunch of bureaucrats to evaluate a technology before it's deployed, before they and the public get to see how it actually works, as if they have some insight into the relative pros and cons and public reception of an innovative new thing in its formative stages. Not very empirical.

A better ex-post structure would be to blacklist/regulate something after the fact, only after it's evident that its public harm outweighs its public benefit. For things that are quite obviously harmful, like toxic/medical waste handling and stuff of that nature, there are already ordinances in place for that.

But most tech businesses are not that obviously harmful, and strict ex-ante regulation of them will stymie creativity more than protect the public.

It also prematurely shuts down possible systemic adaption. For example, the introduction of Scooters and eBike rentals in SF started a conversation there about whether the city should ban cars for anyone who is not a resident of SF.

Eg, build a bunch of parking garages ringing the outskirts of the city, and anyone coming to SF who doesn't live there, either has to take CalTrain/BART into the city, or park at a garage on the outskirts and take Muni/BART/train/car service/taxi/scooter/bike/etc. into the city.

That was an interesting discussion worth having, but ex-ante blacklisting of new tech will reduce the impetus for that kind of innovative solution finding and public discussion.

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#63

Post by rolltiide » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 4:52 PM UTC

SkyMarshal wrote: post #46

jakear wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody said those aren't a problem. Is SF only allowed to work on one problem at a time?

No but with limited resources what they prioritize is telling. Scooters should be near the bottom the list, not the top.

> and there is $250,000 in the current fiscal year’s budget to fund the effort.

Uhm

SF spends 2 orders of magnitude more on homeless and housing annually

Feel free to check I dont mind being wrong, the actual point is that this whole article and thread is about a new office on a $250,000 budget and people think this materially effects the city’s resources at all

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#64

Post by et-al » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 5:48 PM UTC

shuckles wrote: post #48

undefined3840 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Can’t wear sandals anywhere either for fear of stepping into a used needle and contracting something.

Counter-point: every fourth person wearing Birkenstocks this weekend.

This is also Fleet Week, when you have people coming in from the suburbs and out-of-town who won't be as prepared.

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#65

Post by undefined3840 » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

rolltiide wrote: post #63

SkyMarshal wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but with limited resources what they prioritize is telling. Scooters should be near the bottom the list, not the top.

> and there is $250,000 in the current fiscal year’s budget to fund the effort. Uhm SF spends 2 orders of magnitude more on homeless and housing annually Feel free to check I dont mind being wrong, the actual point is that this whole article and thread is about a new office on a $250,000 budget and people think this materially effects the city’s resources at all

This actually makes this announcement even worse. A $250k budget is an utter joke, so it begs the question if this was all done as a troll move toward the entire startup ecosystem in SF to get everyone riled up.

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#66

Post by undefined3840 » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #56

wpasc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention re emergence of medieval diseases like Typhoid [1], large and widely spread amount of human feces (which is a biohazard), and lack of housing supply which contributes to untenable housing costs. [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/03/typhus-tu...

At this point it's strange how the property price in SF haven't been affected by a homeless population almost as large as the housed population. I haven't been to SF anytime recent, but upon visiting New York I found that McDonalds there doesn't have _anything_ within public reach, no fountains, no trays, not even napkins, and I imagine that is totally justified judging by the amount of homeless people residing in/ar…

It’s a gold rush town. People put up with a lot when there’s billions to be made.

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#67

Post by nerfhammer » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 7:51 PM UTC

undefined3840 wrote: post #65

rolltiide wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and there is $250,000 in the current fiscal year’s budget to fund the effort. Uhm SF spends 2 orders of magnitude more on homeless and housing annually Feel free to check I dont mind being wrong, the actual point is that this whole article and thread is about a new office on a $250,000 budget and people think this materially effects the city’s resources at all

This actually makes this announcement even worse. A $250k budget is an utter joke, so it begs the question if this was all done as a troll move toward the entire startup ecosystem in SF to get everyone riled up.

One form of obstructionism that has been used by Peskin is to require a new or expanded type of permit and then decline to fund the permitting agency, so it doesn't have the resources to issue any permits.

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#68

Post by DuskStar » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 8:30 PM UTC

SomeOtherThrow wrote: post #32

wpasc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is against housing development in San Francisco? It is not really a controversial position that it is very difficult to build new housing supply. There have been numerous well studied articles on this fact and a variety of first hand accounts from real estate developers who have had enormous difficulty in building new housing in the bay area. edit: candidates may run on new housing development as it easy an ea…

Look at the D5 race. All the candidates are pro development, the discussion is about to what extent this should happen via mixed rate units vs market rate. As for what people want... is there any good way to be run out of town because you don’t have money? Unrestricted development wouldn’t address the needs of current residents at all and would result in people being forced out in addition to creating more homeless.

I think you're missing the point. Everyone says they're pro-development, sure. But what politicians say and what actually happens are two very different things.

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#69

Post by cameldrv » Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:02 PM UTC

> Before any new tech device is used, tested or piloted in The City, the office would coordinate the review with relevant departments and would “issue a Notice to Proceed if the net result is for the common good,” according to the announcement.

This is exactly how the Amish do it. The elders evaluate new technologies and decide if the technology will help or harm the community before authorizing it.

Re: SF to Establish Office of Emerging Technology

#70

Post by cco » Sun, Oct 13, 2019, 2:20 AM UTC

shuckles wrote: post #48

undefined3840 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Can’t wear sandals anywhere either for fear of stepping into a used needle and contracting something.

Counter-point: every fourth person wearing Birkenstocks this weekend.

I stepped on a piece of metal in FiDi and in my limp to the ER to get it removed I thought long and hard about how much I like wearing sandals and what works have happened if that was a needle. I don't anymore in the city.