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The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

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Re: The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

#21

Post by LessDmesg »

erpellan wrote: post #15
LessDmesg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the "environment movement" as you call it is obviously funded by the governments looking for an excuse to raise taxes. It's the governments giving away grant money to fund the "scientific consensus" (another ridiculous term). Meanwhile, this has nothing to do with "saving the world", only with the sovereign debt crisis. United States, EU and Japan are dead broke, they will try every ploy to raise taxes and steal…

Yes, NASA was funded to collect the actual data until Trump arrived. The facts don’t care if you don’t like them and they don’t go away if you cover your eyes like a child and pretend they’re not there.

The facts are that nobody knows how climate works and there is no proof that humanity controls climate. The facts are that there is a large propaganda machine in the media using dirty tactics (e.g. a mentally ill child) to spread fearmongering and doomsday bullcrap. The facts are that there is big money behind this climate religion that has nothing to do with helping the environment (reality check: carbon dioxide is a benign gas and not a pollutant).

Re: The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

#22

Post by Ididntdothis »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #9
Dumblydorr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the GOP is bought by fossil fuel, even though solar and wind and nuclear can lobby, they can not compete with record setting fossil profits in 2019 dollar amounts, thus the GOP will continue to get on their knees before this industry. We need to technologically destroy the profits that drive denialism. We need to make EVs, renewables, nuclear, etc. so much better that fossil can't compete... seems unli…

It's funny how perspectives can be so different. I feel like the GOP has been politely waiting for the DNC to come to terms with the fact that nuclear is really the only path forward to provide clean stable grid power.

I thought the GOP position is that there is no evidence for climate change and all scientists working in this area are part of a liberal conspiracy that wants to get research money from the government. And even if there is climate change it’s either not man made or actually beneficial. In addition nothing can be done because that would kill the economy. I thought that’s the position.

Re: The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

#23

Post by wk_end »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #9
Dumblydorr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the GOP is bought by fossil fuel, even though solar and wind and nuclear can lobby, they can not compete with record setting fossil profits in 2019 dollar amounts, thus the GOP will continue to get on their knees before this industry. We need to technologically destroy the profits that drive denialism. We need to make EVs, renewables, nuclear, etc. so much better that fossil can't compete... seems unli…

It's funny how perspectives can be so different. I feel like the GOP has been politely waiting for the DNC to come to terms with the fact that nuclear is really the only path forward to provide clean stable grid power.

Can you point to any source that indicates that the GOP, broadly, is pro-nuclear and anti-CO2 like your comment suggests? I'm skeptical but genuinely open to the possibility of being corrected.

Re: The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

#24

Post by huffmsa »

luckylion wrote: post #19
starvingbear wrote: post #8

Sure there is. But doesn't the title of the article read like nazi era propaganda? Not very professional or scientific or to call anyone on the other side a 'climate denier'. I'm sort of in that camp but am not paid and kind of dont mind debating it

I don't know what exactly qualifies as "climate denial", so I'm not even sure which group that is. Everybody who doesn't 100% agree with policies that are suggested and refer to "climate change" as their argument? Global-Warming Skeptics would fit the bill much better, and doesn't have that bitter taste of sounding insanely propaganda-esque, but I guess it also doesn't have the same bang.

Yes but the people who are Climate Change Believers are big fans of slapping -ist labels on those who aren't in 100% lockstep with them.

Re: The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

#25

Post by LessDmesg »

neffy wrote: post #14
LessDmesg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the "environment movement" as you call it is obviously funded by the governments looking for an excuse to raise taxes. It's the governments giving away grant money to fund the "scientific consensus" (another ridiculous term). Meanwhile, this has nothing to do with "saving the world", only with the sovereign debt crisis. United States, EU and Japan are dead broke, they will try every ploy to raise taxes and steal…

If a group of people is allowed to consistently get away with not paying their taxes, then fairly quickly, just by the operation of the monetary system, they will be the only people with any money. The real question is, are these really the people you want in control?

It's not about "getting away", it's about the governments being broke. There is no way to repay the 100% of GDP in debt for the Western governments, and the current pension and welfare programs are doomed. They can tax the hell out of companies but that will turn the West into a quaint XVIIth century villageland with horse-carriages while Asia becomes the epicenter of technology, industry and civilization. The climate religion is just the apoptosis of the Western civilization, it will not and cannot save the climate (even if one were to believe that it needs saving). Chinese and Indian coal stations don't care about Greta Thunberg.

Re: The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

#26

Post by KevinEldon »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #5
mrfusion wrote: post #4

Disclaimer. I’m a believer. But at this point isn’t there money behind both sides? I can’t imagine there wouldn’t be.

The problem is the GOP is bought by fossil fuel, even though solar and wind and nuclear can lobby, they can not compete with record setting fossil profits in 2019 dollar amounts, thus the GOP will continue to get on their knees before this industry. We need to technologically destroy the profits that drive denialism. We need to make EVs, renewables, nuclear, etc. so much better that fossil can't compete... seems unli…

The fossil fuel companies purchase politicians on both sides of the isle. Several prominent democrats, including former and current Democrat presidential candidates have ties with fossil fuel companies. Your argument is weakened by focusing on one political party.

Re: The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

#27

Post by jbeales »

mrfusion wrote: post #4

Disclaimer. I’m a believer. But at this point isn’t there money behind both sides? I can’t imagine there wouldn’t be.

The article _does_ say that the guy is planning on examining the funding on the other side of the movement, so we should get to see the pie chart for the other side eventually.

Re: The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

#28

Post by Consultant32452 »

wk_end wrote: post #23
Consultant32452 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how perspectives can be so different. I feel like the GOP has been politely waiting for the DNC to come to terms with the fact that nuclear is really the only path forward to provide clean stable grid power.

Can you point to any source that indicates that the GOP, broadly, is pro-nuclear and anti-CO2 like your comment suggests? I'm skeptical but genuinely open to the possibility of being corrected.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/248048/years-three-mile-island-...

>Republicans (65%) are more likely than Democrats (42%) to favor the use of nuclear power. Republicans typically have been more supportive of nuclear energy throughout Gallup's trend dating back to 1994.

It's true Republicans aren't as hung up specifically on CO2, but Republicans have been largely in support of nuclear since before you ever heard the phrase "climate change." If we had listened to Republicans back when it was just "clean air" we'd be in a much better position.

Re: The Money Behind The Climate Denial Movement (2013)

#30

Post by fallingfrog »

Right now very close to my house there is a gas and oil storage facility and a pipeline connected to it. The city, under pressure from activist groups, has declared a climate emergency. And yet, nobody has connected the dots on the fact that if we get off fossil fuels in a timely manner, that facility is going to close. Nobody is planning for it or expecting it. The company is not facing higher insurance rates and investors are not worried. Nobody has requested or made any plans for how the facility could be closed. And I see the same pattern worldwide: nobody is actually making the kinds of plans they would be making if they thought that some of the oil and gas was going to be made unavailable permanently. You would see that signal in the stock price of Exxon Mobil and the price of oil.

This tells me one thing: the current plan is that we are going to extract and burn every last drop of fossil fuels everywhere in the world. That is, whatever anybody says, the current plan.

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