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I tried to hack my insomnia

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Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#101

Post by hughdbrown »

slacka wrote: post #30
koheripbal wrote: post #6

During a stressful part of my life recently I struggled with getting to sleep. I just couldn't stop thinking about shit that was going on. until one night I fell asleep on the couch in front of the TV, and it occurred to me that I could just modify this behaviour to bed. So I put a handful of old Star Trek episodes on my phone. Each night I put me earphones on (so as not to disturb my wife), turn on an episode of Sta…

Yes, audiobooks/podcasts at night are great. Lack of sleep ages you, makes you overweight, and susceptible to many health issues. Here's what I did to get enough sleep: * Make sure every monitor/portable device is using Redshift / Night Light blue light filter. * Set a "sleep alarm" After which no work on a screen. Only reading books/audiobooks * 0.5mg of Melatonin helps sleep naturally (more gives trippy dreams) * A…

0.5 mg of melatonin? or 5.0 mg? 5 to 10 mg of melatonin is the amount in most all doses sold on Amazon. I've never seen such a light dose.

Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#102

Post by birdyrooster »

tanin wrote: post #64
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #59

I picked up very serious sleep problems (and seemingly permanent bags under my eyes) right around puberty and lived with it for about twenty years. Tried most of the "hacks" on this page (yes, including exercise) to no avail. It all unexpectedly went away when I moved into my current apartment. I have huge, unblocked, east-facing windows, and every morning I’m bathed in sunlight. No more sleeping in; I’m wide awake,…

I unscientifically believe that we shouldn't use an alarm clock or any kind of trigger to wake up. My rational is: if your body has enough sleep, it'll wake up on its own. On the flip side: it's actually very hard to sleep when your body doesn't need sleep. On another flip side: it's easy to stay awake even though your body needs sleep. With this, we should all sleep in a completely dark (blocked) room with no sound…

I have been following these rules for several years and I find that the hardest thing is convincing my coworkers not to hate me for rolling in at 10:30 or 11:00am everyday because I don't go to sleep until 2am or so.

I really enjoy not getting that awful rush of stress hormones every workday morning and I feel like it helps me to stay more calm and relaxed. I feel healthier as a person so I think it is worth it overall for my employer.

Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#103

Post by david-gpu »

hughdbrown wrote: post #101
slacka wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, audiobooks/podcasts at night are great. Lack of sleep ages you, makes you overweight, and susceptible to many health issues. Here's what I did to get enough sleep: * Make sure every monitor/portable device is using Redshift / Night Light blue light filter. * Set a "sleep alarm" After which no work on a screen. Only reading books/audiobooks * 0.5mg of Melatonin helps sleep naturally (more gives trippy dreams) * A…

0.5 mg of melatonin? or 5.0 mg? 5 to 10 mg of melatonin is the amount in most all doses sold on Amazon. I've never seen such a light dose.

0.5mg of melatonin is a perfectly good dose. For many people, anything over 1mg means sleepiness on the next day. I suggest doing some research, including how to taper it down once you no longer feel it's right for you.

Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#104

Post by klyrs »

iikoolpp wrote: post #45
klyrs wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you go to sleep when you're so tired, as opposed to when the societal clock says you should, you won't have any trouble sleeping. Great PMA, but you're absolutely wrong. I did that last night, got tired and went to bed around 10pm. And then I woke up at 1am. Now that it's approaching 6, I'm getting tired. But this happens to me occasionally and I know from past experience that my two options are: 1) Go back to b…

> I did that last night, got tired and went to bed around 10pm. And then I woke up at 1am. Now that it's approaching 6, I'm getting tired. But this happens to me occasionally and I know from past experience that my two options are: This is how your sleep schedule is naturally designed to work. Sleep for a bit, wake up, sleep again.

Nope. I typically wake up for a few minutes at a time and get a full night's sleep. Every few months, I have a bout of insomnia that reduces me to a couple of hours of sleep for a while. Believe it or not, I know what my normal is better than you.

Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#105

Post by bradlys »

Yeah, I suffered from insomnia for most of my life. I didn't really realize it was an issue until I was about 20-21. I think it took falling asleep at the wheel and rear ending someone, crashing on my bicycle multiple times from not being able to stay awake (going downhill at 20+mph btw), and a plethora of other stupid events for me to realize maybe I should seek help finally. I think it's pretty amazing to see what I accomplished on so little but, ultimately, it's sad because I know I could've done way more with better sleep.

And it was 100% stress related. Taking pills, trying breathing exercises, and everything else didn't fix it. It could make me slightly better than doing nothing but it was never fixed.

I have a rhythm now I follow that works better. But, really, I never found a "solution". I just got into a less stressful life. (Finally having a girlfriend, high(er) paying job, etc. was the "trick" - aka solve what causes my stressors)

Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#106

Post by tobias3 »

hughdbrown wrote: post #101
slacka wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, audiobooks/podcasts at night are great. Lack of sleep ages you, makes you overweight, and susceptible to many health issues. Here's what I did to get enough sleep: * Make sure every monitor/portable device is using Redshift / Night Light blue light filter. * Set a "sleep alarm" After which no work on a screen. Only reading books/audiobooks * 0.5mg of Melatonin helps sleep naturally (more gives trippy dreams) * A…

0.5 mg of melatonin? or 5.0 mg? 5 to 10 mg of melatonin is the amount in most all doses sold on Amazon. I've never seen such a light dose.

It's the correct dose. See https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/12/did-a-melatonin-patent... for the sad background.

TLDR: MIT did a study and patented Melatonin usage with reasonable dosages. Manufactures just increased the dose 10x to get around the patent. The patent is expired but the damage remains.

Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#107

Post by tanin »

quanticle wrote: post #69
tanin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I unscientifically believe that we shouldn't use an alarm clock or any kind of trigger to wake up. My rational is: if your body has enough sleep, it'll wake up on its own. On the flip side: it's actually very hard to sleep when your body doesn't need sleep. On another flip side: it's easy to stay awake even though your body needs sleep. With this, we should all sleep in a completely dark (blocked) room with no sound…

The problem with that idea is that it completely misses the fact that most of us have to get up at a specific time in order to get to work or school or whatever else we have to do. I tried the no-trigger approach for a while, when I was between jobs and didn't have anything to do otherwise. What I found out is that my natural schedule, without manual intervention, has me going to bed at approximately 2am and waking u…

I understand your reasoning completely.

One major assumption that your reasoning relies on is that: human can't adjust their sleep cycle at all.

My unscientific assumption is that we can adjust our sleep cycle to be earlier. But it'll probably take time and effort to do so though.

When I say sleep cycle, I mean: I usually go to bed at 2am, and I want to go to be at 9pm. Can I slowly adjust my body to achieve that?

> After going through that experience, I'd caution people about buying into the no-trigger method. Yes, your brain will naturally get you the amount of sleep that you need. However, there is no guarantee that your natural sleep cycle will mesh with the other obligations you have in your life.

It seems you agree that the no-trigger method is good if we only consider health.

"why we sleep" convinces me that sleep deprivation (even a little) is bad. Essentially, it's a trade-off between damaging your health vs. obligations. This tradeoff is difficult to quantify, so it depends on how you perceive value in each.

Another way that I think about is: the mistake is "going to bed late". You already made the mistake, but you still can choose the punishment. You can choose to damage your health OR you can choose to fail the obligation.

Of course, a better way to avoid all this dilemma together is to go to bed early.

I'd suggest the no-trigger method as the way of life and re-arrange your life to fit the no-trigger method.

Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#108

Post by tanin »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #99
tanin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I unscientifically believe that we shouldn't use an alarm clock or any kind of trigger to wake up. My rational is: if your body has enough sleep, it'll wake up on its own. On the flip side: it's actually very hard to sleep when your body doesn't need sleep. On another flip side: it's easy to stay awake even though your body needs sleep. With this, we should all sleep in a completely dark (blocked) room with no sound…

I share your beliefs. I once experimented with a completely rules-free schedule, under the belief that my circadian rhythm was slightly longer than an earth day, and thus my "day" would slowly shift forwards until my day was everyone's night, and then back again. It didn't feel good and I stopped it after one rotation. As far as the sun as a waking trigger, I believe that as well. With an alarm, it's nothing... nothi…

Gradual light exposure is a good point. But I'd say light increases according to its own schedule... it doesn't take our need to sleep into consideration.

Absorbing light after waking up is an activity that I agree with though. I actually have SAD lamp at home for this.

Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#109

Post by jm__87 »

om3n wrote: post #21

I'm in a particularly stressful time in my life (just moved, intense new job) where I've been struggling to sleep. There will be some nights where I simply don't sleep at all; just lay awake in bed all night. Of course I'm aware of all the health/safety/productivity issues associated with no sleep, and the anxiety of not sleeping just furthers my inability to fall asleep. This is what I've been attempting to do to he…

I had trouble sleeping most of the time from about age 13 to 29. I more or less went through the same process as the author and discovered CBT for sleep is incredibly useful - this is what worked for me more than anything else. Since then I maybe have a poor night of sleep once a month at most. Ultimately, just calming down and letting sleep happen is what is going to fix sleep problems for those who are anxious about sleep (which it sounds like you may be) and this is a hard thing to learn when you're in that sleep anxiety mindset. Highly recommend CBT for sleep.

Re: I tried to hack my insomnia

#110

Post by neckardt »

slacka wrote: post #30
koheripbal wrote: post #6

During a stressful part of my life recently I struggled with getting to sleep. I just couldn't stop thinking about shit that was going on. until one night I fell asleep on the couch in front of the TV, and it occurred to me that I could just modify this behaviour to bed. So I put a handful of old Star Trek episodes on my phone. Each night I put me earphones on (so as not to disturb my wife), turn on an episode of Sta…

Yes, audiobooks/podcasts at night are great. Lack of sleep ages you, makes you overweight, and susceptible to many health issues. Here's what I did to get enough sleep: * Make sure every monitor/portable device is using Redshift / Night Light blue light filter. * Set a "sleep alarm" After which no work on a screen. Only reading books/audiobooks * 0.5mg of Melatonin helps sleep naturally (more gives trippy dreams) * A…

Using melatonin properly completely changed how I sleep. I used to have trouble falling asleep and waking up in the morning, so my sleep schedule would drift back to the point where I would be late to work because I was falling asleep at 4am. I followed the advice of this article[1] and got my sleep schedule back on track. TLDR:

* I take 0.3mg at 7:00pm with the goal of falling asleep at 11:00pm

* Redshift always on at 4500k, turns to 2500k at 10:00pm

I still use a screen until the moment I fall asleep, and I probably don't get enough sunlight. However the changes listed are sufficient for me at least.

[1]: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th...

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