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Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

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Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#321

Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…

> Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors

That's an easy one: the encryption happens client side and thus any backdoor has to sit on the clients and, if it exists, would be available to security researchers. There is no guarantee of it happening, but I believe some of those researchers reverse engineer whatever binary apple published and then check it for backdoors.

Of course there are still tricks that apple could pull, like adding backdoors only to targeted phones, changing the filesystem to present one version of the binary to the OS command that executes it and another to anyone else (like security researchers), extracting the unencrypted message contents using chips that sit on the memory bus (e.g. baseband), etc. But these tricks are harder to pull off and are still detectable as they happen on end-user devices.

They definitely won't say "yeah there is a backdoor". Ultimately, you need to trust them.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spyware is also found in iOS in China via iMessage so what’s your point?

If we don’t talk about zero day vulnerability, which may be used by government to spy citizens, iMessage is end to end encrypted and secure. Chinese local chat app like WeChat, or customized Android from Xiaomi or Huawei, they have back doors, which allow Chinese gov access data directly. Spyware from unintentional vulnerability vs. intentional back doors are different.

If your phone is backed up to iCloud, and your phone (or iCloud account, it's not clear) has the region set to China, then your messages are most likely accessible by the Chinese government, because Apple's cloud services are operated by a Chinese company in China, and Chinese companies don't have the option of resisting information requests from the government.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#323
post #321

Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…

> Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors That's an easy one: the encryption happens client side and thus any backdoor has to sit on the clients and, if it exists, would be available to security researchers. There is no guarantee of it happening, but I believe some of those researchers reverse engineer whatever binary apple published and then check it for backdoors. Of…

Doctored binaries (that leak private keys) can be sent to only select devices of a people under surveillance. So reverse-engineering generally available app will show nothing.

Apple REALLY must be coerced into allowing app sideloading (and accept push notifications not only through APNS)

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#324

It's already known that iCloud in China is operated by a state-owned telecom (GCBD) see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21217920 so they could use the data to track the protestors. And iPhone usages is comparatively small according to https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/china (Android 79% and iPhone 20%) Then https://hkmap.live/ is available as a website. So why the outcry about this? In the end, f…

The single page app at https://hkmap.live/ opens on iOS with a note telling you how to add it to your Home Screen.

That gives you a custom app icon, which opens as a live full screen map app w/o browser chrome.

This open mechanism to “sideload” what a regular user can’t tell the difference from an App Store app was the original iPhone app distribution strategy for both live and offline HTML5 apps, provided to developers before the App Store existed.

It remains relatively trivial to distribute apps this way.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#325

Apple is under pressure from China to remove App. Billions of dollars at stake for Apple. That's why Apple does that. If you'd be offered $1B to agree to remove the app, would you do that? You know the answer.

WhatsApp founder walked away early from nearly a billion dollar final payout, over privacy dispute with Facebook, then funded Signal $50M instead.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#326

This seems like a perfect opportunity for Apple to allow apps to be installed outside of the App Store (like macOS). I was absolutely shocked that Apple rejected the Gab app. Their rules are arbitrary and constricting.

The single page app at https://hkmap.live/ opens on iOS with a note telling you how to add it to your Home Screen. That gives you a custom app icon, which opens as a live full screen map app w/o browser chrome.

This open mechanism to “sideload” what a regular user can’t tell the difference from an App Store app was the original iPhone app distribution strategy for both live and offline HTML5 apps, provided to developers before the App Store existed.

It remains relatively trivial to distribute apps this way.

Start here:

https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ap...

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#327
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. What veracity? He is a businessman in a trillion dollar company. He says what pleases the market -- the domestic and the foreign one, not his personal beliefs... The first priority is always profits or growth. If one sincerely cared for the environment fo…

Part of Apple's image that earned it loyal customers is that they care more about their customers than most other companies. Apple doesn't sell your data, it protects your privacy, will fight government agencies asking for user's data, etc.

Who thought most of these things? Every Apple customer knows that Apple overcharges for everything but the alternative is not acceptable to them (Android, Windows, etc) l.

Apple doesn’t sell your data because it’s not their business model.

Most people don’t care about privacy, if they did, they wouldn’t use Facebook or Google.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This app specifically lists where the police are. That is its primary purpose. Comparing it to Facebook or Snapchat makes absolutely no sense.

Compare it to Waze, which somehow remains in the app store.

Is Waze available in HK or China?

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#329

I am not surprised by this. I always thought Tim Cook talks a good talk, but fails to walk the walk when the stakes at hand is real. He’s fine with standing up to the CIA/FBI because he knows it’s good PR for business and the US government cannot do anything without a lengthy court fight that is mostly fair. Same with other US domestic issues such as DACA, sane sex marriage, etc. But when it comes to the PRC governme…

Honestly - Apple could have doubled their prices and gained 90% of the US market if he stood up to China and told the CCP to stuff it. They would have had amazing PR for decades.

My experience is that this China obsession is very much a HN thing. The vast majority of people couldn't care less as long as they carry on getting cheap technology.

Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up

#330

Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…

> And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to demands given enough pressure? Unlike China, the US is still governed by mostly democratic laws and a Constitution, and law enforcement and politicians can't just wish new laws into effect. As Penn Jillette says, "The Chinese Bill of Rights isn't worth the paper it isn't written on."

Law enforcement, district attorneys, and judges have a lot of latitude about how the law is applied. Not to mention the latitude that regulatory agencies have.
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