What Happens to the Body on No Sleep • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#191

Post by ptah » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 8:54 AM UTC

motivic wrote: post #9

In case you feel sleep is a waste of time, it could actually be surprisingly productive to sleep. Once thing I noticed in grad school is that your sub-conscious is passively working on the problems you encountered even if you are not actively thinking about them. And often I would "dream" up a clever solution to a homework problem during my sleep. J.P. Serre, one of the most brilliant mathematician still living today…

I find this works best if the last thing you do before falling asleep is studying or thinking about the problem as you are falling asleep. i remember reading thomas edison and salvador dali used a more intricate technique to problem solve during sleep https://www.inc.com/the-muse/albert-einstein-thomas-edison-y...

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#192

Post by Hitton » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 8:57 AM UTC

devilmoon wrote: post #113

MisterOctober wrote: post #5

A lot of the stuff mentioned in this article -- microsleeps, immune weakness, irrational thoughts and behavior -- sure rings a bell from my university days when I would, either for work or school "reasons," routinely pull all-nighters. Ended up with some very bad results. Also: Schools in general in my area, including elementary, are starting waaaay earlier than they used to, and the kids aren't getting enough sleep,…

Oh boy, the university I'm attending right now has lectures starting at 8am, which is earlier than usual for my country, and ca. 36 hours of lectures per week. This means that you usually go 8am/6pm in uni multiple days a week, then you obviously have your assignments and catching up on the lectures to do, and all the random stuff that comes with living alone (laundry, grocery, cooking, cleaning, etc.) - this means t…

36 hours a week from 8am to 6pm means that you have approximately 2 hours between lectures each day to do your assignments. Sure, it isn't suited to having part time job or much free time, but from my experience it sounds like pretty normal uni routine and no one I know complained. And I warn you, when you are older it isn't going to be any better, just instead of assignments you have to take care of kids.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#193

Post by ck425 » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 9:06 AM UTC

copperx wrote: post #168

mft_ wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be about work productivity. The most profound effect I noticed myself is learning passages of music on an instrument (note I'm an amateur, and not especially good!) After not too long trying to learn/practise one evening, I will be noticeably better the next day.

I found exactly the same thing and it weirded me out. How did I get better without practicing? Often I would hit a wall after practicing for hours and was not able to play a certain passage, but then the next day I magically could. I've recently found that reading before going to sleep (while not staying up late reading) opens my mind the next day and I wake up knowing whether I have accepted or rejected a premise of…

I do theatre as a hobby and do the same thing with learning lines. I run lines before bed and before lunchtime naps and I absorb the info far easier.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#194

Post by 0x14c1de72 » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 9:12 AM UTC

harikb wrote: post #127

numlock86 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I noticed in grad school that your sub-conscious is passively working on the problems you encountered even if you are not actively thinking about them As other comments already mentioned, this works amazing for problem solving related jobs as well. As an engineer I use this actively on almost a weekly basis. To make this work you just gotta really think about that problem and understand the actual parameters very w…

Lucky you. In my case, I end up thinking about the problem in my sleep, come up with solutions that are a mix between reality and fantasy within the dream and usually end in a horrible loop of the above while I desperately try to break out of it. In short, spoils my whole night sleep ( at least how I feel about it next day ). Rarely have it actually produced a successful solution!

> usually end in a horrible loop

Describes perfectly some problems I've had when sleeping. They are not really any problems I think before sleeping and even in my sleep I'm not sure what the problem is but oh boy is my brain thinking hard about it. Usually I need to reset by walking around my apartment for a minute. Thankfully I've had less and less of these nights recently.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#195

Post by K0SM0S » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 9:14 AM UTC

cj wrote: post #99

K0SM0S wrote: post #35

I've suffered from insomnia most of my teen and adult life (I am 37). I sometimes go up to 3 days without sleep (thus 2 nights, ~60 hours total; 'record' just shy of 80 hours), then sleep for ~12 hours. I usually work almost the entire time. My "default" day seems to last 25~30 hours, give or take, which means that naturally there are more like 6 'days' per week for me. ('days' roughly defined as periods of wake time…

I'm not sure how to word this, so please don't take it the wrong way, but have you been screened for mental health problems? Periods of extended bouts of energy + productivity followed by sleep sounds like it something that could be associated with certain forms of bipolar disorder. Just curious what your personal opinion is of your mental health (and why you might not fit those typical diagnoses), since I'm sure you…

No offense taken whatsover. : ) On the contrary, thank you for the suggestion.

It's interesting you mention this because by my mid-20's I hypothesized this very condition — a mild form, as I've never experienced psychosis (that's when perception becomes objectively flawed, seeing/hearing things, or failing to censor your own actions etc., hallmarks of the manic phase). However I do display classic signs of hypomany (the non-psychotic form of the opposite of depression), as well as acute and regular depressions (about every other year for 2-6 months) from the age of 12 to 34 (at which aged I "cured", somewhat definitively it seems, my last and by far biggest depression, for once motivated by real mind-numbingly bad events, unlike the mood swings most of my life which were mostly 'internal' for god knows what reason).

(Note that there are "normal" depressions, I merely imply curing the "abnormal" ones here for me. I don't expect nor wish to feel good when bad things happens, even though I know I can do that now. It's not magic either, just a lot of training and not much of a choice ultimately, survival instinct if you will).

So the spoiler is nope, a resounding "no Sir, whatever problem you have, bipolarity is not it." — from one top 10 specialist on the topic in Europe, maybe the world. He was so sure, and such a great psychiatrist, there was no doubt. No professional ever suggested bipolarity for me, but cyclic (seasonal) depression maybe. Anyhow. The only solution I know is to take the matter in your own hands, feel "responsible" in the noblest sense, and work, hard, relentlessly, to make a better self.

You can engineer happiness it seems, or at least deconstruct the lack of it, the inability to feel happy / good. At least, in my anecdotal case.

One formidable life coach in my 20's did suggest I may be borderline, and I worked hard on this because it was... probably mostly true (I did have a tendency to emphasize the good or the bad). Apparently the borderline disorder often cures itself by one's 40's, and indeed in my case, I no longer display any symptom of that (since, well, my early 30's).

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#196

Post by K0SM0S » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 9:16 AM UTC

htfu wrote: post #121

cj wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how to word this, so please don't take it the wrong way, but have you been screened for mental health problems? Periods of extended bouts of energy + productivity followed by sleep sounds like it something that could be associated with certain forms of bipolar disorder. Just curious what your personal opinion is of your mental health (and why you might not fit those typical diagnoses), since I'm sure you…

Sounds more like an adaption to a longer than 24h circadian rhythm than bipolar disorder, which shouldn't cycle that fast or regularly.

You are right on the money. I went to see a specialized "sleep" doctor around 2006 (can't remember the name of the specialty) in Paris, St Anne. He diagnosed what translates as a "phase shift" of my circadian rythm by ~4 hours (thus my daily cycle runs 28h give or take, sleep remains at 8-9 hours though).

I'm really not a biologist, let alone neurologist, but from what information I could gather, I observe these 'abnormalities' of mine (the good as much as the bad) all seem to stem from the hypothalamus region/function. E.g. I also have a weird digestive cycle, basically ketogenic (1 big meal per day, typically for dinner) is my natural regime. I don't eat for ~10 hours after I wake up usually, then eat a 1.5~2x meal in quantity. Unless I go to sleep, I'll then keep eating regularly however.

But how do you even investigate, let alone 'fix' a malfunctioning hypothalamus?.. I never heard or read anything about such research let alone treatment.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#197

Post by Kiro » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 9:18 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #156

Zarath wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I understand why you'd write something like this, I think that this sort of thinking is the reason people get poor sleep nowadays anyway. This obsession with "efficiency" and "productivity". Even if it is more productive to get sleep, I believe that thinking about it in terms of hygiene or in terms of quality of life is much healthier. Maybe you disagree but not every minute of life should be devoted to doing t…

You have a valid point. But on the other hand, this is ycombinator news, and so entrepreneurs trying to get that last bit of productivity by doing an all nighter might think more long-term about this.

Hacker News is the complete opposite nowadays. People who tries to maximize productivity are frowned upon. The norm is to put your family, friends, travelling and stuff like that before anything else.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#198

Post by wruza » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 9:19 AM UTC

eyegor wrote: post #50

I'm sure that it must be true based on how other people act on little sleep, but for me the effects this article claims are blown way out of proportion (or just seem wrong). > longer than 48 hours and you’re looking at behavior that mimics psychosis—incoherent rambling, disconnection from reality, prone to outbursts Does anyone else here have experience staying awake this long? In college I frequently stayed awake fo…

I did that often when I was 20-25, and then the habit of not having day/night affinity made it to the core. Then at around 33yo I couldn’t sleep for 3 or 4 nights in a row (not sure how to count). You want to sleep, you have to, you close your eyes and go to bed, but it doesn’t work. You don’t know if it ever will. That was pretty terrifying experience. I was also scared to use alcohol or street drugs to fix that, since the perspective of additionally being stuck in a sleepless hangover was unbearable.

Since then I rarely abused my sleep cycles, but my week schedule drifts often. At monday I get up at 10, at friday it’s 16-19 (4-7pm). I un-drift it by not sleeping the sunday day. Can’t do anything with it.

Sleep drugs help to fall asleep early, but can’t make me unbroken on wake up. Even a couple of hours now make a big difference, and if I get up early it “doesn’t count anyway” for my body at the nature’s evening.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#199

Post by distant_hat » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 9:21 AM UTC

jcoffland wrote: post #86

> Push yourself longer than a few days without sleep, and the effects can be lethal. The above statement in the article links to a story on Reuters about one case of an intern who stayed up for 72 hours and died for unknown reasons. Hardly proof. This is so overblow. Many people have stayed awake for more than 72 hours and not died. In fact, there is no evidence that sleep deprivation causes death in humans. If you d…

Actually sleep deprivation results in death and is one of the reasons it is used as a torture method. Some neurological conditions which degrade sleep significantly result in death. Among the failures observed are things like loss of thermoregulation. Guinness book of records stopped recognizing sleep deprivation records because of the dangers of going too long without sleep. Sleep deprivation has been more extensively studied in animals like mice and rats etc and invariably results in death.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#200

Post by yati » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 9:21 AM UTC

Sleep is very very important, and I've learned this the hard way. Sleeping well has been a challenge, and I am glad I'm not alone.

Articles like this one and books like Why We Sleep however make me very anxious, since all they seem to do is point out how bad it is if one doesn't get enough sleep. I know that. How can I fix it? I had CBT based sleep therapy last year, and things have since improved, but not much. Then I have the occasional random doctors who tell me how sleep is actually not that important and how they used to sleep only 3h/day when they were my age. Even the cult book Why We Sleep has chapter after chapter of telling me how screwed I am because I don't sleep 8-9 h/day, with little actionable items that can help me. I get that it is super important to raise awareness about sleep, but every time I open such articles, I am invariably made anxious about my sleep, and people who know what I'm talking about know how hard it is to sleep with anxiety about your sleep.

Sorry for my rant :(