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What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

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Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#181
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be about work productivity. The most profound effect I noticed myself is learning passages of music on an instrument (note I'm an amateur, and not especially good!) After not too long trying to learn/practise one evening, I will be noticeably better the next day.

I found exactly the same thing and it weirded me out. How did I get better without practicing? Often I would hit a wall after practicing for hours and was not able to play a certain passage, but then the next day I magically could. I've recently found that reading before going to sleep (while not staying up late reading) opens my mind the next day and I wake up knowing whether I have accepted or rejected a premise of…

The music thing is definitely a real phenomenon. It’s well researched and covered in some detail in “Why We Sleep” by Matt Walker (which is mentioned in tfa, and is a fantastic book.)

The fiction thing is interesting.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#182
It is your duty as human being to get enough sleep because if you are well rested you treat yourself better, you treat people around you better and you generally spread positive energy around. - this is how my spiritual teacher explained why getting enough sleep is first step to growth.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#183

If sleep is so important. Why didn’t we evolve to have our newborns and toddlers not destroy our sleep? Are parents sacrificed for the well being of the kiddos? sleep deprived and frustrated father

The whole family living with you and helping you out,just rest when the baby is with someone else. Oh you live in the 21th century? Sorry :(

At least the kid won't die from starvation and diseases. So that's good. But you have to go to work 40-60 hour every week away from your beloveds to a place where sleep is forbidden. So that's bad.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#184
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stayed awake two nights in a row during college and, while I felt miserable and perhaps somewhat dilirious, I don't believe I had such disassociative effects. I could believe incoherent rambling after maybe 4 or 5 days, but that seems extreme for 2.

4 or 5 days? I'm not convinced a healthy person could make it that long. I've asked hundreds of classmates and grad students over the years for their records and have yet to meet anyone that claimed over 72 hours. Personally my body was almost completely non functional around 65 ish hours -- stumbling and slurring words, no concept of time, incapable of focusing. The only reason I was awake long enough to reach that…

I made it to 82 hours. It was forced upon us (military training, trench digging sleep deprivation exercise). I made it all the way to enforced rest period. Others didn't.

Up to 48 hours things were mostly normal in all areas, I was just tired. After that second night things started to get weird. Hand eye coordination worsened dramatically (not good when swinging pick axes and shovels in close quarters with others). Speaking and forming thoughts was definitely affected negatively.

One funny thing was we'd frequently have to 'stand to' and prepare for an attack by downing tools and standing in the trench with our rifles ready to fire on any attackers. Standing still for long periods staring at nothing was enough to bring on repeated and severe micro-sleeps. I distinctly remember standing there and hearing clattering noises and soft cries of pain from the field around me. I wondered what it was, until I watched my trench buddy slip into a micro-sleep, his body go limp and fall into the bottom of the trench. His rifle made the characteristic clattering sound against the corrogated iron and his cry came from smashing his knees into the side of the trench as he crumpled.

I was 20 at the time, the youngest from my company and dealt best with the deprivation of anyone. Youth plays it's part I think, though I am also predisposed to need less sleep even now, so some genetic factor is probably at play too.

From 48 hours onwards I began to realise the less I did the more difficult things would be. I volunteered for soime arduous patrols during the day and we were all forced to do some recce's during the night. That night I fell twice, once down a bank. I cut my hand pretty badly. In a year of training it was the only time I injured myself. My performance was definitely affected.

Crouched under a tree in the pouring rain about 70 hours in I remember feeling physically sick from the brain fog. Night time caused the world to close in around me in a very disorientating way.

At about 80 hours I remember seeing an old Sergeant from early in my training as I was coming back from a patrol. My directing staff had gone back to their harbour area ahead of us as the assessment phase of the patrol was over and it was our responsibility to get back to our trenches.

So, free from interference I went over to shake his hand and found it to be extremely sharp and prickly. I recoiled and couldn't understand what was happening. Trying again I gripped tighter, feeling the sharp needle like pains in my hand again. For some reason I pulled him closer and then I felt the shooting pains right in my face, especially my lips.

As I stumbled backwards I forgot to let go of his hand. It came away and I fell back with it.

As I hit the ground hard my 'vision' cleared and I could clearly see I had been shaking hands with a Holy tree. The sharp pains were caused by the needle like spines digging into my skin.

I chucked the branch from my hand and got back in line.

No one noticed my excursion, they were too busy picking two of my patrol buddies up from the track. They were laying face down asleep having simply shut down right as they were walking along, falling face first into the dirt and staying there, snoring.

Sleep deprivation is a powerful drug!

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#185
post #133
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a related note, I wear a fitbit and if I sleep from say 12-8, you'd think this would be 8 hours of sleep (as recommended) but I usually have about 1 hour awake or restless (according to the fitbit). So fitbit says I got 7 hours of sleep. The question is do these studies account for this supposed awakeness that seems to be part of everyone's night of sleep? Surely nobody that reads them thinks they need 8+1 hours w…

I think most recommendations are to get 4-5 sleep cycles a night, so the actual elapsed time will vary for individuals. The problem with chronic sleep deprivation is that you miss one or more cycles, It's like if you washed your clothes but skipped the rinse and/or spin cycles. Skipping a whole night of sleep and you're still wearing yesterday's clothes.

>still wearing yesterday's clothes.

How abhorrent.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#186
post #9

In case you feel sleep is a waste of time, it could actually be surprisingly productive to sleep. Once thing I noticed in grad school is that your sub-conscious is passively working on the problems you encountered even if you are not actively thinking about them. And often I would "dream" up a clever solution to a homework problem during my sleep. J.P. Serre, one of the most brilliant mathematician still living today…

>In case you feel sleep is a waste of time, it could actually be surprisingly productive to sleep.

Probably the most productive thing one can do.

Idea: Full sleep is useless. I'll sleep 5 hours or less and gain more productive time / life lived.

Reality: Without full sleep (7-8.30 hours/day) you'll be less performant, less intelligent, less healthy, less productive, and on top of the less performance through your life, your life itself will be shorter.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#187
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be about work productivity. The most profound effect I noticed myself is learning passages of music on an instrument (note I'm an amateur, and not especially good!) After not too long trying to learn/practise one evening, I will be noticeably better the next day.

I found exactly the same thing and it weirded me out. How did I get better without practicing? Often I would hit a wall after practicing for hours and was not able to play a certain passage, but then the next day I magically could. I've recently found that reading before going to sleep (while not staying up late reading) opens my mind the next day and I wake up knowing whether I have accepted or rejected a premise of…

I won't dismiss that a lot of things can happen during sleep that will help you do better in the morning, but a lot of the time I think this kind of thing boils down to performance falling off as you get tired, to the point of eventually negating improvements you make. It doesn't help if you've figured out how to do something if you're tired to execute on it.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#188

If sleep is so important. Why didn’t we evolve to have our newborns and toddlers not destroy our sleep? Are parents sacrificed for the well being of the kiddos? sleep deprived and frustrated father

Yeah, and now take: reduced immune system from sleep deprivation + a lot more exposure to viruses from kindergarten = why parents of young children get sick so often.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#190
post #35

I've suffered from insomnia most of my teen and adult life (I am 37). I sometimes go up to 3 days without sleep (thus 2 nights, ~60 hours total; 'record' just shy of 80 hours), then sleep for ~12 hours. I usually work almost the entire time. My "default" day seems to last 25~30 hours, give or take, which means that naturally there are more like 6 'days' per week for me. ('days' roughly defined as periods of wake time…

Thank you for the detailed and interesting comment. I wish I could maintain my productivity for extended periods of time like you do. Unfortunately I find that my cognitive abilities drop-off very quickly when become tired. Also you talk of an 'intelligence switch'. Could you explain what you mean by that?

Sure. It might be quite long if I really explained in detail, though. I really need to write the book of that eventually. Here's the very incomplete gist of it.

The idea of an intelligence switch is basically a set of methods, a system, to train and foster the use of some "meta" forms of intelligence so to speak, whose primary purpose is to improve / enable / train intelligence itself. It's very much not a hack (efforts...) but does yield compound-like growth. It's very transdisciplinary in nature in that it does require exposing yourself to many fields and many mental frameworks or logics/models (the more, the better I suppose).

I guess you could say it's a framework for the languages of intelligences, whose output (UI) is conscious thought and effect is actual real-world skills (actions) or models (world views) — technical, mental, social, emotional, political etc. What an exquisitely cheesy yet accurate-enough metaphor.

It's pratically very comprehensive and probably sounds like "be great all-around with a super-trained brain" to most people, I'm afraid. Not quantum science though, elements and concepts are quite simple, but there's no shortcut to training each step.

If you want pointers you might recognize, there's the book "Mindset" by Carol Dweck (2008, iirc), and a certain branch of (very practical, down-to-earth) philosophy dating back to Ancient Stoics all the way to 20th century Stephen Covey (the famous "7 habits", at least one in particular), passing by Viktor Frankl ("3rd" school of psychoanalysis dubbed "logotherapy" from logos, speech).

You might have heard the quote: “Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.”

Well, the training/building of this "space" + a "growth" mindset, I argue, can take 80% of people at least halfway there (leaps and bounds further than whatever is/are current average intelligences, well enough to kickstart and reap massive further improvements over the next generations).

Knowledge of these methods and principles reminds me a lot of the Scientific Method for instance, hard at first to mold your brain with such rigor, but once internalized a formidable enabler of thought — at a civilizational scale. It's just vastly more general in scope than science or logic, and encompasses — by definition, not necessarily easily/always felt — all possible forms of intelligence, including meta-intelligence itself.

It's no secret either, most of it is out there for the taking, has been for decades, sometimes millennia; but there is so much noise and intox obfuscating.

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