Apple is under pressure from China to remove App.
Billions of dollars at stake for Apple.
That's why Apple does that.
If you'd be offered $1B to agree to remove the app, would you do that?
You know the answer.
Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
171–180 of 388 posts
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? At least in China, you can probably assume iMessage is back-doored given that iCloud content in mainland China is operated by a Chinese internet company. Apple quietly posted this last week on their support page: "iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Ch…
Microsoft has the same setup for Azure. >Get a physically isolated instance of Azure for your cloud computing services—operated by 21Vianet, a company based in China. Besides censorship and spying on users, China probably doesn't want it's company's data hosted in a place the US's 3 letter agencies can access it via an NSL. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/global-infrastructure/chin...
Aren't foreign companies not allowed to operate in China without partnering with local companies? I think most (if not all) companies that sell services and digital products (online games, etc) operate this way.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#173Fuck your fiduciary duty. I cannot think of two words that have done more damage to humanity than those two.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#174Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…
> Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? At least in China, you can probably assume iMessage is back-doored given that iCloud content in mainland China is operated by a Chinese internet company. Apple quietly posted this last week on their support page: "iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Ch…
If I travel to China does that mean my iCloud data will sync to Chinese iCloud?
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Microsoft has the same setup for Azure. >Get a physically isolated instance of Azure for your cloud computing services—operated by 21Vianet, a company based in China. Besides censorship and spying on users, China probably doesn't want it's company's data hosted in a place the US's 3 letter agencies can access it via an NSL. https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/global-infrastructure/chin...
AWS is working on it too. Internally, the region is very much treated as untrustworthy.
Very interesting. Any additional info? Info that is maybe not public?
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#176Apple is under pressure from China to remove App. Billions of dollars at stake for Apple. That's why Apple does that. If you'd be offered $1B to agree to remove the app, would you do that? You know the answer.
$1B for me is a life changing amount of money. $1B for Apple is less than .4% of their revenue.
I imagine you're a software engineer earning 100k per year. Would you take away a tool a group of people are using to try and fight for their freedom for $400?
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#177Apple caved under pressure from China. The explanation Cook gave is not just an embarrassment, it calls into question the veracity of all of his other statements. Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? And why should the US government be satisfied with a fully encrypted iMessage given that Apple will cave to d…
The US isn't a closed market and can't effectively eject Apple from the market. While I disagree with the choice Apple made, it's a very rational one. Permanent removal from China would probably be worse for freedom in China over 20 years, and massively worse for Apple in the short term. No company should be expected to back or foment a revolution somewhere, from my perspective they're looking out for their own beet…
I honestly don't care when Apple complies with local law a la iCloud China. I think that is disappointing but completely reasonable, whether we agree with the law or not.
However, Hong Kong is a special administration region, and has historically enjoyed high level of judicial independence. When Apple takes the clue from a Chinese government newspaper - not even a legal request - and do the CCP's bidding proactively, it crosses a line. This is not compliance. This is self-censor.
You can argue that Hong Kong is part of China, and therefore Apple's operation in Hong Kong should comply with Chinese law. But what is next? China also claims sovereignty over Taiwan, will Apple self-censor Taiwanese App Store soon? Will Apple removes the Taiwanese flag from Taiwanese iOS users if China government demands so [1]?
It's also sad to see Apple pushes back on US government requests because they can, and kowtows to the Chinese governments without their having to even sending a take-down request! If one day Apple fires some employee because the Chinese government thinks he/she "hurt Chinese people's feeling" in a personal tweet [2], I will not be surprised!
[1] https://www.engadget.com/2019/10/09/apple-removes-taiwan-fla...
[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nba/nba-statement-diff...
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#178Apple is under pressure from China to remove App. Billions of dollars at stake for Apple. That's why Apple does that. If you'd be offered $1B to agree to remove the app, would you do that? You know the answer.
$1B for me is a life changing amount of money. $1B for Apple is less than .4% of their revenue. I imagine you're a software engineer earning 100k per year. Would you take away a tool a group of people are using to try and fight for their freedom for $400?
So, it is much easier to judge others (Apple and whoever) and avoid acknowledging that for sufficient amount of money most of the righteous commenters here would be willing to sheepishly sacrifice their beliefs.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why should users believe that (closed source) iMessage encryption is free from backdoors when we know that Cook will dance around sensitive truths? At least in China, you can probably assume iMessage is back-doored given that iCloud content in mainland China is operated by a Chinese internet company. Apple quietly posted this last week on their support page: "iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Ch…
If I travel to China does that mean my iCloud data will sync to Chinese iCloud?
No, it is based on the account itself. There is no sync between the two sets of servers so that wouldn't work for them to base it on the physical location of the device.
Re: Tim Cook’s Company-Wide Email on Hkmap.live Doesn’t Add Up
#180Can I play devil's advocate for just a moment? Gruber asks for evidence. His only complaints seems to be the lack of evidence and a question of whether the app violates local (Hong Kong) law. Cook's memo directly addresses both of those issues: > However, over the past several days we received credible information, from the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau, as well as from users in Hong Kong, that…
> So then, is the complaint simply that Cook is not providing direct evidence of these claims?
The complaint is that the claims are not credible given what we know of the app's capabilities. How could an app that highlights areas of heavy police activity be used to single out and attack lone officers without backup? If his claims were plausible, it might be different, but extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.