What Happens to the Body on No Sleep • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#11

Post by theatraine » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:13 AM UTC

There seems to be quite a lot of information about why =8 hours is associated with increased mortality.

See for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29790200 (an interesting study in itself).

I read "Why We Sleep" but unfortunately it didn't answer this question. The association could be correlational but it's been replicated too many times for me to believe that there's not something more fundamental. Perhaps there's a hormetic effect that's blunted by too much sleep similar to how HGH is bad for longevity?

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#12

Post by Barrin92 » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:16 AM UTC

the article points to a lot of adverse health effects that undoubtedly exist but it also sounds a little dramatic.

That sleep deprivation after 18 hours for example significantly degrades performance is something I have not experienced. The sluggishness after all-nighters I can attest to but not to the level that I'd compare it to alcohol intoxication.

I've heard of people having drug-induced hallucinations after days without sleep, but the article states that hallucinations seem to be common after only 48 hours, which surprised me.

In general, I've had to deal with lack of sleep a lot in my life, first in the military and later when co-founding a business, and while it definitely wasn't always pleasant, I'm not sure it's quite as bad as people nowadays make it out to be.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#13

Post by jeffshek » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:19 AM UTC

o10449366 wrote: post #6

I was born with chronic insomnia and I'm now in my early 30s. I never feel sleepy and just this past Monday I went to work having not slept the night before. I'm healthy now and I guess my body is so used to the effects of sleep deprivation that I feel no side effects (such as headaches), but I wouldn't be surprised if I die very young. If you have any questions feel free to ask them, just please don't suggest I try…

How is your blood pressure variability?

I went for 4-5 hours of sleep for a year; while resting blood pressure was normal, I found it would spike high easily.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#14

Post by o10449366 » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:20 AM UTC

rockinghigh wrote: post #8

o10449366 wrote: post #6

I was born with chronic insomnia and I'm now in my early 30s. I never feel sleepy and just this past Monday I went to work having not slept the night before. I'm healthy now and I guess my body is so used to the effects of sleep deprivation that I feel no side effects (such as headaches), but I wouldn't be surprised if I die very young. If you have any questions feel free to ask them, just please don't suggest I try…

Do you ever do strenuous exercise? If so, how does it affect your insomnia?

Exercise doesn't have an effect for me. In high school I played two varsity sports and in college I played in some club/recreational leagues. Now I swim and weightlift, but I wouldn't say any of these activities improve my quality of sleep or ability to induce it.

This is because, for me, "sleepiness" is not the same as "tiredness." I can be extremely exhausted, both mentally and physically, but I'll still never feel sleepy.

I would say one of the most frustrating aspects of being an insomniac is that is makes activities like weightlifting much more difficult. I'll never be able to achieve my weightlifting goals because I simply don't sleep enough hours to let my body fully recover. I've found I still have a strong stamina for aerobic sports, but building raw strength and muscle has been really hard.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#15

Post by Jill_the_Pill » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:20 AM UTC

motivic wrote: post #9

In case you feel sleep is a waste of time, it could actually be surprisingly productive to sleep. Once thing I noticed in grad school is that your sub-conscious is passively working on the problems you encountered even if you are not actively thinking about them. And often I would "dream" up a clever solution to a homework problem during my sleep. J.P. Serre, one of the most brilliant mathematician still living today…

I used to be really good at this. I would wake up with answers, first thought in the morning!

But as I have gotten older, the "working on it" dreams have become disruptive and my sleep less sound when processing some problem.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#16

Post by o10449366 » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:21 AM UTC

jeffshek wrote: post #13

o10449366 wrote: post #6

I was born with chronic insomnia and I'm now in my early 30s. I never feel sleepy and just this past Monday I went to work having not slept the night before. I'm healthy now and I guess my body is so used to the effects of sleep deprivation that I feel no side effects (such as headaches), but I wouldn't be surprised if I die very young. If you have any questions feel free to ask them, just please don't suggest I try…

How is your blood pressure variability? I went for 4-5 hours of sleep for a year; while resting blood pressure was normal, I found it would spike high easily.

I've never had any problems with low or high blood pressure and I think that's been helped by staying relatively aerobically fit throughout my life.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#17

Post by jeffshek » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:21 AM UTC

motivic wrote: post #9

In case you feel sleep is a waste of time, it could actually be surprisingly productive to sleep. Once thing I noticed in grad school is that your sub-conscious is passively working on the problems you encountered even if you are not actively thinking about them. And often I would "dream" up a clever solution to a homework problem during my sleep. J.P. Serre, one of the most brilliant mathematician still living today…

I think the different stages of sleep play a part here ... Salvadore Dali apparently liked to keep an object/pen in his hand that would drop and wake him up.

Still can't find enough real examples of polyphasic sleeping working, but love to know how well people of that retained content.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#18

Post by ngngngng » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:23 AM UTC

Pretty neat to see these symptoms understood and researched. I experienced all of them during high school when I worked at a movie theater that kept me there past 2AM and got up each morning for Seminary at 6AM. No caffeine was allowed in my parents household either. The freeway microsleep is the scariest. You suddenly become very alert and realize you don't remember the last few minutes at all.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#19

Post by jeffshek » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:24 AM UTC

Jill_the_Pill wrote: post #15

motivic wrote: post #9

In case you feel sleep is a waste of time, it could actually be surprisingly productive to sleep. Once thing I noticed in grad school is that your sub-conscious is passively working on the problems you encountered even if you are not actively thinking about them. And often I would "dream" up a clever solution to a homework problem during my sleep. J.P. Serre, one of the most brilliant mathematician still living today…

I used to be really good at this. I would wake up with answers, first thought in the morning! But as I have gotten older, the "working on it" dreams have become disruptive and my sleep less sound when processing some problem.

Joshua Waitzkin has an interesting perspective on this. He will take an idea, keep it in his hold, and then make sure he lets go of the focus a few hours before bedtime. IE. Do something with family instead.

Subconscious brain still works on it, but still able to sleep well. Not sure if this would be applicable.

Re: What Happens to the Body on No Sleep

#20

Post by o10449366 » Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 1:26 AM UTC

karanbhangui wrote: post #7

o10449366 wrote: post #6

I was born with chronic insomnia and I'm now in my early 30s. I never feel sleepy and just this past Monday I went to work having not slept the night before. I'm healthy now and I guess my body is so used to the effects of sleep deprivation that I feel no side effects (such as headaches), but I wouldn't be surprised if I die very young. If you have any questions feel free to ask them, just please don't suggest I try…

Curious if you've done in-lab sleep studies and if so, what the treatment has been like?

I've done two, but I didn't find them very helpful. They take several months to schedule, which is quite inconvenient, and they require dedicating a lot of time staying overnight in clinics with wires strapped to you.

The end result is the same, too. Current medical advice is a mix of sleep hygiene and meditation strategies (some insomniacs feel extremely anxious when they can't sleep, which makes things worse) and medication.

I'm currently not taking medication, but for many years it was a pretty constant cycle 6-9 months on medication, and then a few months tapering off because my body would quickly build tolerance to them. Medication was pretty critical when I was in college, but in the decade since I've graduated I think I've just come to see the cycle as unsustainable and ultimately kind of pointless which is why I haven't taken them for about a year now.