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System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

forbes.com

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Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#11

Post by awinter-py »

BYO software is my #3 consumer electronics question (after form factor & 'does it work at all')

and drivers are an important frontier of this. SO TIRED of downloading blobs to have wifi on linux. AFAIK there isn't even a usb wifi dongle that has an open source wifi driver, much less a commercial wifi chipset.

even companies that are in theory dedicated to quality are teetering on the edge of using software to enable planned obsolescence -- and also releasing unpleasant product changes in line with security updates.

coreboot particularly interesting because of the TOTP work people have been doing on the TPM for tamper detection.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#12

Post by isantop »

Bob312371 wrote: post #8

I wonder if that's working for them as a core selling point. Does having an open firmware really steer people into buying one of these laptops? I'm curious to hear from an actual buyer on why they purchased that laptop when there are so many linux friendly options available. For web dev I've been running ubuntu on a virtualbox on my macbook pro for years. It's pretty much just as fast as my fully specced out desktop.…

Both the Adder and the Serval are available with 4K displays (The Adder also being OLED). System76 has been providing Linux-friendly laptops for well over a decade, and we take pride in offering the highest-possible performance available in a Linux-ready package.

The entire company here is pretty well focused on making everything open, because we believe it truly makes a better product. Many of our customers agree with this philosophy, and so for them this kind of thing is definitely a selling point. For people who are less focused on it, it might not be, but it's definitely never a bad thing.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#13

Post by grawprog »

Bob312371 wrote: post #8

I wonder if that's working for them as a core selling point. Does having an open firmware really steer people into buying one of these laptops? I'm curious to hear from an actual buyer on why they purchased that laptop when there are so many linux friendly options available. For web dev I've been running ubuntu on a virtualbox on my macbook pro for years. It's pretty much just as fast as my fully specced out desktop.…

I've had trouble with uefi on my laptop with Linux so for me openboot is a pretty strong selling point. I lost power in the middle of an update once as it was updating the kernel and boot certificates. When I powered my laptop back on it wouldn't boot at all. It wouldn't even get back to the grub screen. At that point I'd uninstalled windows and had to fuck around in the secureboot settings manually following some obscure instructions I found online. Luckily it worked but it was not fun.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#14

Post by floatboth »

jackpot51 wrote: post #5
kop316 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello! With only needing the Intel FSP, does that disable the Intel ME? And what other peripherals need closed firmware? You also are not here: https://www.coreboot.org/users.html I say that because I have been in the market for a laptop, and I am looking for a free(dom) based laptop. I looked there and it led me down the path of a Purism laptop. Have you also thought about adding some sort of hardware kill switches…

The laptops which we will be delivering with open firmware will require the FSP and Intel ME, with the Intel GOP driver being an optional component to enable graphics acceleration in UEFI. The ME is disabled by way of a HECI message early in the boot process, so there are no runtime ME components similar to using the HAP bit on older ME versions. I will get https://www.coreboot.org/users.html updated as soon as possi…

> Intel GOP driver being an optional component to enable graphics acceleration in UEFI

libgfxinit works even on Kaby Lake now.. but I see that you're using some ridiculously new 10th-Generation stuff for new laptops.

> HECI message early in the boot process, so there are no runtime ME components similar to using the HAP bit on older ME versions

Hm, I haven't heard of the HAP bit being gone?

Also, you can still remove extra ME modules, right?

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#15

Post by floatboth »

awinter-py wrote: post #11

BYO software is my #3 consumer electronics question (after form factor & 'does it work at all') and drivers are an important frontier of this. SO TIRED of downloading blobs to have wifi on linux. AFAIK there isn't even a usb wifi dongle that has an open source wifi driver, much less a commercial wifi chipset. even companies that are in theory dedicated to quality are teetering on the edge of using software to enable…

Most Wi-Fi blobs are not blob drivers, they're firmware that runs on the Wi-Fi card.

For Intel Wi-Fi, FreeBSD includes the firmware out-of-the-box, many Linux distros do the same I'm sure.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#17

Post by Bob312371 »

darau1 wrote: post #10
Bob312371 wrote: post #8

I wonder if that's working for them as a core selling point. Does having an open firmware really steer people into buying one of these laptops? I'm curious to hear from an actual buyer on why they purchased that laptop when there are so many linux friendly options available. For web dev I've been running ubuntu on a virtualbox on my macbook pro for years. It's pretty much just as fast as my fully specced out desktop.…

I got a Gazelle a few days ago, mainly because I didn't want to have to troubleshoot anything when I get it. I wanted a plug and play linux experience, and this is it.

That's a fair point. I tried running Ubuntu & Arch on my macbook and was horrified to find that you have to set up and the fan regulation yourself or else the thing will just cook itself.

Not to mention the fun you'll have setting up the wifi and the especially good luck getting multi-touch support work just right.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#18

Post by davidw »

jackpot51 wrote: post #9
davidw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty happy with my Dell with Ubuntu, but it's really good to know there are other options out there, and I'll definitely be looking at these next time I need a new system. Thanks for your work!

Good to hear! If you want to play around with the firmware, you can still do so in virtualization using the qemu model.

You guys probably need a song if you're going to outdo open firmware (Google the open firmware song)!

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#19

Post by isantop »

floatboth wrote: post #15
awinter-py wrote: post #11

BYO software is my #3 consumer electronics question (after form factor & 'does it work at all') and drivers are an important frontier of this. SO TIRED of downloading blobs to have wifi on linux. AFAIK there isn't even a usb wifi dongle that has an open source wifi driver, much less a commercial wifi chipset. even companies that are in theory dedicated to quality are teetering on the edge of using software to enable…

Most Wi-Fi blobs are not blob drivers, they're firmware that runs on the Wi-Fi card. For Intel Wi-Fi, FreeBSD includes the firmware out-of-the-box, many Linux distros do the same I'm sure.

Yeah, the actual Intel WiFi driver is afiak open source. It's the firmware that's not.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#20

Post by isantop »

rsync wrote: post #16

I would love to buy an open, linux-based laptop to replace my aging 11" MBA but these are huge laptops - the smallest has a 14" screen. Should I be looking at the Pinebook 11" ?

The Galago is actually about the same size as 13 inch laptops a few years ago. Bezel reduction has contributed a lot to shrinking laptops.
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