UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update • Hacker News Board

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#111

Post by unclesams-uncle » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:08 PM UTC

remarkEon wrote: post #5

Why is Turkey in NATO? At this point Their behavior is nothing but antagonistic at best and downright nefarious at worst.

If Turkey leaves NATO, they will further ally with Russia.

Considering Turkey's strategic location, it's better to have Turkey in NATO instead of as an adversary, even if its leadership doesn't align with the values of other NATO members.

Erdogan knows that he has a ton of leverage and chooses to maximize his advantage.

There are a lot of moving pieces here. He's overcalculated a bit and his nationalist policy has hurt the Turkish economy.

Likewise, many European countries rejecting Turkey's EU bids last decade on thinly-veiled Islamaphobic pretenses only strengthened his nationalist message at home.

The west knows it, but they also know that they would rather have Turkey nominally on their side than not.

It will probably take cooler heads and or a major economic downturn to shift that sentiment. Until then, Turkey maintains its seat in NATO.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#112

Post by nec4b » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

It's incredible bad idea to bring people in the EU and house them in ghettoes surrounded with barbed wire to prevent them from leaving.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#113

Post by andrepd » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

adwww wrote: post #54

beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

Charter does sound a much better name than slums or shanty towns.

Shanty town + Silicon Valley VC-speak = charter City

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#114

Post by beefield » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

nec4b wrote: post #112

beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

It's incredible bad idea to bring people in the EU and house them in ghettoes surrounded with barbed wire to prevent them from leaving.

I fully agree. If you thought that was what I was proposing you may want to reread my post.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#115

Post by chewz » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

Don't be naive. These cities would be turning into ghettos rotten with corruption and ruled by organized gangs in no time.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#116

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #108

pjc50 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asylum seekers are deliberately prevented from working in the UK, it's illegal for them to do so. They are paid £37.75 a week to live on. This is not a lot.

> They are paid £37.75 a week to live on. This is not a lot. Shifting discussion from the cost of refugees to talking about only the food cost, or whatever it is that £37.75 a week amounts to, seems like a deliberate dodge. I'd be pretty insulted if I was from the UK. Obviously that's not a lot of money because obviously its not the whole picture. What they are paid, or that they are paid at all, is never ever a rele…

Admittedly that excludes housing benefit, but again, when they are forbidden from working, where and how are they supposed to live?

The stipend is for food and all other living expenses - clothes, heating etc.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#117

Post by blaser-waffle » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

chewz wrote: post #115

beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

Don't be naive. These cities would be turning into ghettos rotten with corruption and ruled by organized gangs in no time.

See also: Gastarbeiter and Turkish-German integration issues.

"By 2010 there were about 4 million people of Turkish descent in Germany. The generation born in Germany attended German schools, but some had a poor command of either German or Turkish, and thus had either low-skilled jobs or were unemployed. Most are Muslims and are presently reluctant to become German citizens."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastarbeiter

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#118

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

unclesams-uncle wrote: post #64

beefield wrote: post #36

What EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, he…

This sounds like a refugee camp but with extra steps.

It's a refugee camp with better infrastructure and opportunity. That makes it quite different from what we normally think "refugee camp" means.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#119

Post by ahbyb » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

s9w wrote: post #97

ericras wrote: post #13

That's not a very good threat. Diversity is Europe's strength and they will be welcome with open arms!

a reply to this was just removed. not [removed] removed, but actually deleted. Is that normal? I've never seen that.

I was the author of that message and I removed it myself (it was a troll reply that got flagged).

Removed posts appear as [removed] only if they have children (and, I believe, only mods can remove posts that have children). A post with no children that is removed by its author or a mod simply vanishes.

Re: UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update

#120

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

yalph wrote: post #85

Its hilarious when citizens of “western” countries are happy with invading countries blowing up children to pieces and then expect other countries to bare the burden. Lay it off!!!

Why do you bring this up?

Because you think those things are wrong? Then they're wrong when Erdogan does them, too.

Because you think that we think that those things are wrong? Then we think that they're wrong when Erdogan does them, too.

I don't think that there's an argument you can make on these grounds that helps you very much...