Going vegan isn't the only option. Humans need to give more consideration to edible insects. (seriously)
See the history of eating lobsters for an example of how attitudes can change.
Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
71–80 of 119 posts
Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
#72> farms growing crops have been just as destructive as those raising animals This comparison does not make sense. What this reporter and the public, in general, fail to realize still in 2019, is that most of the farms producing crops are doing so to produce cattle feed. The majority of agricultural fields are planted to feed livestock, not humans. Only a relatively small amount of crops goes directly to humans. This…
Farms grow crops that you can't eat, to feed to animals that you can. Name the protein and fat sources that will replace meat. Tofu? We already grow soy for animal feed as a cash crop and it's pesticide and fertilizer intensive, and if people eat it directly instead of as an animal feed additive its production will grow at the expense of forests and soil health. Nuts? I'm all for perennial woody agriculture, but the…
Paul Graham:
I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness.
It only becomes abuse when people resort to karma bombing: downvoting a lot of comments by one user without reading them in order to subtract maximum karma. Fortunately we now have several levels of software to protect against that.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171
News Guidelines:
Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
#73I am wondering if there will really be a clever technical solution to climate change. Maybe we just need to come to terms with the fact that we have been living drastically above our means and we need to adjust our standard of living accordingly.
I think you're right- the solution is going to be a combination of carbon capture, agricultural technology, energy storage, and some degree of energy austerity enforced with carbon taxes. How much austerity depends on how soon we begin addressing the problem.
Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
#74I'm going to say something very unpopular: If your plan to save the world includes requiring all 9 billion people to fundamentally change their lives (especially if its perceived as a degradation of their current quality of life), it's never going to work. Now I'll speak for myself. I will not go vegan, given the current offering of vegan foodstuffs. It just doesn't taste as good. I know it may be better for me than…
I agree and I don’t think you’re an asshole.
There is a bigger problem before a one-size-fits-all-no-meat solution, climate change deniers.
If you can’t get people to acknowledge the problem is real, you aren’t going to get them to make a big life change to help address it.
I’m on the same page as you regarding meat. I love it. One of my hobbies is cooking it. That’s said, I acknowledge there is a problem and I want to do my part, despite that it may not do much in the grand scheme of things.
We are now a single electric car household, I walk or ride my bike to most things, I take a ride share if I have to go across LA.
Three dinners a week are vegetarian/vegan from Veestro (prepared meals) so I don’t have to _work_ to have a “lower quality” meal.[1]
I moved east in LA so I could own property to start growing my own food (not fully self sustained - yet)
All the vegans still driving cars, how green are those cars? Are they getting more efficient? How green are the trucks moving the produce you buy? Why do you live in a big city paying rent instead of having a home with land that you can grow your own food?
Use a phone? Gotta get that new phone as soon as it comes out?[2] Live in a house? Look out a window? What’s the carbon footprint of processing the sand to make this things?
People need to spend more time pressuring governments and corporations and finding any way that they can personally help that keeps them happy with their quality of life and less time looking down their nose at other individuals for not following their holier-than-thou solution.
[1] veestro isn’t low quality, it’s pretty good. I meant lower quality in my eyes because it’s lacking a key ingredient
[2] I only buy refurbed phones because I know sand is a bitch.
Edited for more ‘tude
Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
#75> farms growing crops have been just as destructive as those raising animals This comparison does not make sense. What this reporter and the public, in general, fail to realize still in 2019, is that most of the farms producing crops are doing so to produce cattle feed. The majority of agricultural fields are planted to feed livestock, not humans. Only a relatively small amount of crops goes directly to humans. This…
Farms grow crops that you can't eat, to feed to animals that you can. Name the protein and fat sources that will replace meat. Tofu? We already grow soy for animal feed as a cash crop and it's pesticide and fertilizer intensive, and if people eat it directly instead of as an animal feed additive its production will grow at the expense of forests and soil health. Nuts? I'm all for perennial woody agriculture, but the…
A better way to say it would be that a lot of grazing land isn't useful as farmland.
Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
#76I'm going to say something very unpopular: If your plan to save the world includes requiring all 9 billion people to fundamentally change their lives (especially if its perceived as a degradation of their current quality of life), it's never going to work. Now I'll speak for myself. I will not go vegan, given the current offering of vegan foodstuffs. It just doesn't taste as good. I know it may be better for me than…
> If your plan to save the world includes requiring all 9 billion people to fundamentally change their lives (especially if its perceived as a degradation of their current quality of life), it's never going to work. > Now I'll speak for myself. I will not go vegan I agree with your logic, people like you are why it will not work. When the shit hits the fan, I hope your grandchildren can reserve some empathy for their…
As has been pointed out in other threads, it will take more than two generations of people for the lives of humanity to really be changed. And, in all likelihood, humanity will simply use technology to adapt to the changed circumstances.
My hypothetical grandchildren's grandchildren will be dead of old age well before humanity will have to do more than move from one city to another to preserve their way of life.
Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I will not go vegan, given the current offering of vegan foodstuffs. It just doesn't taste as good. This may be, especially regarding texture. But think about it the other way: steak etc. is a poor substitute for the whole universe of flavours of plant-based dishes. As long as you are not clinging to meat substitutes, you are not missing out, quite the contrary. If you are looking for a seamless segue from meat to…
As I responded to a sibling comment - there's nothing about eating meat that prevents me from also eating various vegetarian and vegan dishes. I've had some pho with tofu, and it was fantastic (if expensive). There's also milk, and milk product that I would have to give up or accept substitutes for.
Of course. Just to state the obvious: asking for puritan veganism is not necessary, and diplomatically irresponsible.
A friend of mine loves meat dishes, but has no problem eating vegetarian or vegan for days in a row. For him, meat is an optional ingredient, alongside cabbage and beans, not the staple of a healthy or even psychologically necessary diet.
That’s the mindset that is feasible and that we need. Not the religious zeal of that which calls itself veganism.
Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Current generation here (I'm 20). There's a lot of steps you can take without decreasing your quality of life - is that cut of steak _really_ that important to your quality of life? If, aware of the problem of climate change AND of the solutions, you choose to do nothing then you won't just be an asshole in the eyes of the next 20 generations, you're an asshole in the eyes of my generation too.
It's not just steak. It's tacos, hamburgers, roasted (or friend) turkey, pork chops, ham, BLTs, chicken tenders, milk, cheese, lattes, milk chocolate, white bread, clam chowder (any chowder for that matter), sushi... The list of non-vegan foods is quite long. > you're an asshole in the eyes of my generation too. I'm willing to accept that. The hate of a group of anonymous people is something I have no problems with.
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Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Barley crops are a good counter-example. There are three main purposes: malting, milling & animal feed. A good chunk of the feed barley on the market is barley grown for malting or milling but wasn't good enough for those purposes and is fed to chickens. The alternative to feeding it to chickens is to throw it away. That's hardly environmentally friendly. Some barley is purposefully grown for feed rather than aiming…
Well then lets no plant Barley to feed humans, let's use something else. The thing is a good portion of the surface of the Earth is covered with agricultural fields, most of them aimed at feeding cattle, not humans. It's a bit insane if we think about it. I doubt that conversion from barley to chicken is so efficient. There is more nutrition in barley than the protein, there are carbs as well and fiber and micro nutr…
Feed barley also yields almost 2X that milling wheat does on dryland Canadian prairie, so switching species rather than variants doesn't change the argument.
And if you want to use calories instead of grams of protein, be my guest. It'll just help my argument. Chickens eat unhulled barley; the hull is almost half the weight of the kernel. Humans eat hulled barley and still a good chunk of its calories are indigestible fiber. That may help your digestive system but you're not extracting any energy from it.
Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
'older' person here (48) - so I'm not the next generation, etc. I've been mostly vegetarian (and sometimes vegan) for the last couple of years. A lot of it does taste better than meat to me. Not everything, but then there's plenty of bad meat meals around that I'd avoid anyway (most burgers, etc). I had a vegan burger last night that was tasty and succulent - the kind of thing that I think a blind taste test would me…
I am being a bit selfish - but I think that applies even to philanthropists. They do it because it makes them feel good, or to atone for past sins, or to make future generations look upon them as "good". But I also disagree that my individual effort will have even the smallest effect. I'm one of nine billion. We frequently underestimate how big a number that is, and how insignificant the individual is when looked at…
You are not the only person in this world. Maybe the change will need to be forced upon us, but there are big changes that started grass-roots