Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet • Hacker News Board

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#41

Post by Someone » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #28

vfc1 wrote: post #3

> farms growing crops have been just as destructive as those raising animals This comparison does not make sense. What this reporter and the public, in general, fail to realize still in 2019, is that most of the farms producing crops are doing so to produce cattle feed. The majority of agricultural fields are planted to feed livestock, not humans. Only a relatively small amount of crops goes directly to humans. This…

Farms grow crops that you can't eat, to feed to animals that you can. Name the protein and fat sources that will replace meat. Tofu? We already grow soy for animal feed as a cash crop and it's pesticide and fertilizer intensive, and if people eat it directly instead of as an animal feed additive its production will grow at the expense of forests and soil health. Nuts? I'm all for perennial woody agriculture, but the…

”We already grow soy for animal feed as a cash crop and it's pesticide and fertilizer intensive, and if people eat it directly instead of as an animal feed additive its production will grow”

Only if farmers keep feeding soy to cows that nobody will buy anymore.

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#42

Post by nicoburns » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

jakewins wrote: post #37

vfc1 wrote: post #3

> farms growing crops have been just as destructive as those raising animals This comparison does not make sense. What this reporter and the public, in general, fail to realize still in 2019, is that most of the farms producing crops are doing so to produce cattle feed. The majority of agricultural fields are planted to feed livestock, not humans. Only a relatively small amount of crops goes directly to humans. This…

Some plants have exceptional environmental properties; things like soy, oats (0.1g CO2e/kcal!!) and potatoes. Others are worse than eating meat; if you get your calories from fresh tomatoes (12.22g CO2e/kcal, heated greenhouse) you have an order-of-magnitude higher impact than if you get it from chicken (~1.58g CO2e/kcal, depending on part). The food system is not easily grouped into "climate-conscious" and "bad"; a…

Nobody really eats tomatoes for the calories though. People (with meat-based or plant-based diets) use tomatoes for flavour and other nutrients.

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#43

Post by baxtr » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:31 PM UTC

jakewins wrote: post #37

vfc1 wrote: post #3

> farms growing crops have been just as destructive as those raising animals This comparison does not make sense. What this reporter and the public, in general, fail to realize still in 2019, is that most of the farms producing crops are doing so to produce cattle feed. The majority of agricultural fields are planted to feed livestock, not humans. Only a relatively small amount of crops goes directly to humans. This…

Some plants have exceptional environmental properties; things like soy, oats (0.1g CO2e/kcal!!) and potatoes. Others are worse than eating meat; if you get your calories from fresh tomatoes (12.22g CO2e/kcal, heated greenhouse) you have an order-of-magnitude higher impact than if you get it from chicken (~1.58g CO2e/kcal, depending on part). The food system is not easily grouped into "climate-conscious" and "bad"; a…

I really wonder: how is it possible to even consider getting calories from tomatoes? They're tasty, but they will never stop your hunger

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#44

Post by NickBusey » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:31 PM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #36

bryanlarsen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barley crops are a good counter-example. There are three main purposes: malting, milling & animal feed. A good chunk of the feed barley on the market is barley grown for malting or milling but wasn't good enough for those purposes and is fed to chickens. The alternative to feeding it to chickens is to throw it away. That's hardly environmentally friendly. Some barley is purposefully grown for feed rather than aiming…

Well then lets no plant Barley to feed humans, let's use something else. The thing is a good portion of the surface of the Earth is covered with agricultural fields, most of them aimed at feeding cattle, not humans. It's a bit insane if we think about it. I doubt that conversion from barley to chicken is so efficient. There is more nutrition in barley than the protein, there are carbs as well and fiber and micro nutr…

Not plant Barley? Hate to tell you, but when they said 'malting' that means 'malted barley' as in the primary ingredient in beer. We are not going to stop planting that any time soon.

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#45

Post by jetpackjoe » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:32 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #28

vfc1 wrote: post #3

> farms growing crops have been just as destructive as those raising animals This comparison does not make sense. What this reporter and the public, in general, fail to realize still in 2019, is that most of the farms producing crops are doing so to produce cattle feed. The majority of agricultural fields are planted to feed livestock, not humans. Only a relatively small amount of crops goes directly to humans. This…

Farms grow crops that you can't eat, to feed to animals that you can. Name the protein and fat sources that will replace meat. Tofu? We already grow soy for animal feed as a cash crop and it's pesticide and fertilizer intensive, and if people eat it directly instead of as an animal feed additive its production will grow at the expense of forests and soil health. Nuts? I'm all for perennial woody agriculture, but the…

As long as you are eating a variety of plants and getting enough calories it is practically impossible to be protein deficient.

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#46

Post by odiroot » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:33 PM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #3

> farms growing crops have been just as destructive as those raising animals This comparison does not make sense. What this reporter and the public, in general, fail to realize still in 2019, is that most of the farms producing crops are doing so to produce cattle feed. The majority of agricultural fields are planted to feed livestock, not humans. Only a relatively small amount of crops goes directly to humans. This…

Let us stop consuming ruminants meat first then. Beef and lamb are not even that good but require so much resources.

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#47

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:33 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #14

I'm going to say something very unpopular: If your plan to save the world includes requiring all 9 billion people to fundamentally change their lives (especially if its perceived as a degradation of their current quality of life), it's never going to work. Now I'll speak for myself. I will not go vegan, given the current offering of vegan foodstuffs. It just doesn't taste as good. I know it may be better for me than…

> If your plan to save the world includes requiring all 9 billion people to fundamentally change their lives (especially if its perceived as a degradation of their current quality of life), it's never going to work.

> Now I'll speak for myself. I will not go vegan

I agree with your logic, people like you are why it will not work. When the shit hits the fan, I hope your grandchildren can reserve some empathy for their ancestor who so loved his lifestyle that he was willing to watch the world burn rather than reduce his consumption.

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#48

Post by djaychela » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #14

I'm going to say something very unpopular: If your plan to save the world includes requiring all 9 billion people to fundamentally change their lives (especially if its perceived as a degradation of their current quality of life), it's never going to work. Now I'll speak for myself. I will not go vegan, given the current offering of vegan foodstuffs. It just doesn't taste as good. I know it may be better for me than…

'older' person here (48) - so I'm not the next generation, etc. I've been mostly vegetarian (and sometimes vegan) for the last couple of years.

A lot of it does taste better than meat to me. Not everything, but then there's plenty of bad meat meals around that I'd avoid anyway (most burgers, etc). I had a vegan burger last night that was tasty and succulent - the kind of thing that I think a blind taste test would mean a meat eater would think it was good.

I occasionally eat meat, but make sure that it's good (last time I made a real effort was a steak house for my birthday while I was in Barcelona, it was incredible). Most of the time I feel better heath-wise for eating a mostly vegetarian diet (which is often vegan) - I don't feel like I've been violated (which with hindsight was how I felt after many meat-based meals), and don't feel like I'm eating loads of fat. In addition I can actually eat more than I used to, which is great.

The ship may have sailed, but we can permanently change its course if we each individually choose to do so. People often complain that there's no such thing as democracy any more, etc., but you can make a difference in your individual purchasing an lifestyle choices, and if everyone (or even a significant percentage of people) did the same, the world would be better off.

Without wanting to start a comment war, it sounds to me like you're being a bit selfish, and then trying to legitimise what you want to do by saying that it'll have no effect on the future. If everyone acted like this, the world would be in a terrible state.

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#49

Post by mikestew » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #28

vfc1 wrote: post #3

> farms growing crops have been just as destructive as those raising animals This comparison does not make sense. What this reporter and the public, in general, fail to realize still in 2019, is that most of the farms producing crops are doing so to produce cattle feed. The majority of agricultural fields are planted to feed livestock, not humans. Only a relatively small amount of crops goes directly to humans. This…

Farms grow crops that you can't eat, to feed to animals that you can. Name the protein and fat sources that will replace meat. Tofu? We already grow soy for animal feed as a cash crop and it's pesticide and fertilizer intensive, and if people eat it directly instead of as an animal feed additive its production will grow at the expense of forests and soil health. Nuts? I'm all for perennial woody agriculture, but the…

This vegan was almost to the end and ready to hit the upvote button...and you just had to do the EDIT, didn't you? Have a NULL value instead, and try to quit worrying about imaginary internet points. (No, you can't turn them in for prizes, I found out.)

Re: Going Vegan Won’t Save the Planet

#50

Post by baxtr » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 3:35 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #28

vfc1 wrote: post #3

> farms growing crops have been just as destructive as those raising animals This comparison does not make sense. What this reporter and the public, in general, fail to realize still in 2019, is that most of the farms producing crops are doing so to produce cattle feed. The majority of agricultural fields are planted to feed livestock, not humans. Only a relatively small amount of crops goes directly to humans. This…

Farms grow crops that you can't eat, to feed to animals that you can. Name the protein and fat sources that will replace meat. Tofu? We already grow soy for animal feed as a cash crop and it's pesticide and fertilizer intensive, and if people eat it directly instead of as an animal feed additive its production will grow at the expense of forests and soil health. Nuts? I'm all for perennial woody agriculture, but the…

How much protein do you think a normal person needs? Valter Longo recommends ".31 to 0.36 grams per pound of body weight). That comes to 40 to 47 grams of proteins per day for a person weighing 130 pounds, and 60 to 70 grams of protein per day for someone weighing 200 to 220 pounds." Why would you really need meat at all if those numbers are correct?

https://valterlongo.com/daily-longevity-diet-for-adults/