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Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

theguardian.com

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Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

#51

Post by alphabettsy »

dwrowe wrote: post #14
falcolas wrote: post #3

Too many temporarily embarrassed billionaires in our population to push for this from the bottom, and too many billionaires using their version of lunch money on our politicians to get traction from the top. Great concept, won’t ever actually happen.

This is such a tired take. Is it not possible to just believe that a person shouldn’t HAVE to pay more (percentage-wise) in taxes because they’re successful - while at the same time, be fine with the credits / deductions available to the less fortunate? I can’t be the unicorn here.

Without thinking too much I’d agree, but I have a hard time saying someone making $25k/yr should pay 25% of their income compared to someone making $1mil/yr.

If the very wealthiest weren’t paying lower effective tax rates than the people making $200k/yr. that would be a start.

Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

#52

Post by SolaceQuantum »

thrower123 wrote: post #48
AlexandrB wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why the notion that gov't should be the provider & arbiter of all? Because the government is democratically elected. Billionaires are not. > Why do none of the "they don't pay enough taxes" crowd not realize the rich do so much of, and more efficiently, what the gov't purports to with massive overhead? [citation needed] In fact, there's an easy counter-example. Healthcare. More expensive than any public system, wit…

Democracy just means you managed to convince more idiots to say A rather than B. It's not like it is really an admirable state of affairs. Billionaires have to at least be competent enough to make their money, and shelter it from the thieving governments and other leeches that are trying to suck it away from them.

"Billionaires have to at least be competent enough to make their money, and shelter it from the thieving governments and other leeches that are trying to suck it away from them."

Is this actually true? At having that much money you can hire someone to be competent for you in wealth management.

Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

#53

Post by malvosenior »

AlexandrB wrote: post #26
ctdonath wrote: post #7

Why the notion that gov't should be the provider & arbiter of all? Why do none of the "they don't pay enough taxes" crowd not realize the rich do so much of, and more efficiently, what the gov't purports to with massive overhead? Job creation, charity, arts funding, lowering costs of necessities, etc - and at levels & locations which gov't would never achieve. The "tax/soak the rich" notion seems almost entirely puni…

> Why the notion that gov't should be the provider & arbiter of all? Because the government is democratically elected. Billionaires are not. > Why do none of the "they don't pay enough taxes" crowd not realize the rich do so much of, and more efficiently, what the gov't purports to with massive overhead? [citation needed] In fact, there's an easy counter-example. Healthcare. More expensive than any public system, wit…

I trust politicians as much as I trust billionaires: not at all. In fact as the OP points out at least the occasional billionaire will do something productive for society. The same can't be said for the government.

> [citation needed] In fact, there's an easy counter-example. Healthcare. More expensive than any public system, with worse outcomes for the general population.

The only reason health care is so expensive in the US is because of government regulations. From doctor accreditation, FDA approval, health insurance "marketplace" rules... The government is the single largest force pushing up the price of health care.

Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

#54

Post by wycy »

ctdonath wrote: post #8
grecy wrote: post #5

I just read that Jeff Bezoz will pay a lower tax rate than someone earning $7.25/hr. Incredible.

He's also giving thousands of people jobs, making necessities available to millions at low prices, and paying enormous amounts in total taxes. Can gov't really do more with his money than he can? Do you really want to disincentivize what he does for humanity?

He's not giving away jobs as charity because he has money. The need for these jobs stems from the demand for the work produced by those jobs, not his on-hand availability of money. If he/Amazon didn't have the money on hand, they would just borrow it and/or raise investments.

Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

#55

Post by bilbo0s »

thrower123 wrote: post #48
AlexandrB wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why the notion that gov't should be the provider & arbiter of all? Because the government is democratically elected. Billionaires are not. > Why do none of the "they don't pay enough taxes" crowd not realize the rich do so much of, and more efficiently, what the gov't purports to with massive overhead? [citation needed] In fact, there's an easy counter-example. Healthcare. More expensive than any public system, wit…

Democracy just means you managed to convince more idiots to say A rather than B. It's not like it is really an admirable state of affairs. Billionaires have to at least be competent enough to make their money, and shelter it from the thieving governments and other leeches that are trying to suck it away from them.

>It's not like it [democracy] is really an admirable state of affairs.

So, what is an "admirable state of affairs" if democracy is so objectionable to you?

Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

#56

Post by ctdonath »

antidaily wrote: post #35
ctdonath wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's also giving thousands of people jobs, making necessities available to millions at low prices, and paying enormous amounts in total taxes. Can gov't really do more with his money than he can? Do you really want to disincentivize what he does for humanity?

What’s he doing with his money? He’s not paying workers out of his checking account.

Most of Bezos' money is invested in Amazon, investing in growth to create more jobs and better/cheaper goods & services. What he actually spends, funds jobs that exist because rich people exist and buy things others don't.

Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

#58

Post by hevi_jos »

Paying more than 70% of what you earn is not fair. It is slavery and confiscation.

And it always happens the same way, those in charge, in power, who control this 70% will manage to spend it on themselves one way or another.

In the soviet Union official markets will have stands selling just one potato, or one lemon or egg. Then in the black market the communist families could buy(or access, because with power and influence you don't need money)everything, from good meat, fish...

People that traveled abroad, with public money were the children of the communist... they had access to (imported)TVs, good houses and cars instantly while the rest of the population will wait for years or decades, only to get bullshit TVs, bullshit houses and bullshit cars.

In the UK,and the US with confiscation taxes rich people found ways to not pay taxes at all. It was only a barrier of entry to middle class.

Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

#59

Post by rtkwe »

ColanR wrote: post #18
noahth wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone deserves a say in the allocation of resources. The way we accomplish that is through government. Elon Musk is not improving the environment, he's launching cars into space for giggles while mistreating his workers.

> Everyone deserves a say in the allocation of resources. How about we amend that to, 'Everyone deserves a say in the allocation of resources, in proportion to their demonstrated ability to amass and manage resources'. Elon Musk figured out how to make a ton of money; he has more right to determine its use than some bureaucrat in an office. You say that government is our method of collective allocation, but it's real…

> it's really unelected officials doing what lobbyists recommend

The rules they run by are created by your elected representatives.

Re: Forget philanthropy. The super-rich should be paying proper taxes

#60

Post by alphabettsy »

ctdonath wrote: post #42
pizza234 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's also giving thousands of people jobs Enterpreneurs don't "give" jobs to people. Refer to the "wage labour" definition: > Wage labour is the socioeconomic relationship between a worker and an employer, where the worker sells their labour power under a formal or informal employment contract. precisely, they're purchasing labor. And actually, Bezos is puchasing it at a dirty cheap price.

Pedantic. He created a job opening, they accepted it. Ask NYC how terrible those 30,000 new Amazon jobs are ... oh right, they don't exist there because the "Bezos is a meanie" people drove them away. A job is better than no job. Bezos hired them to do something productive.

I think it was residents didn’t want to pay millions or billions in incentives for jobs.
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