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Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

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Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#231

Post by _khhm »

song wrote: post #164
_pmf_ wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should you now remove Safari because it allows you to access data that would potentially help with criminal intent? Worked for gab.

For a site like Gab, I always wondered if having a massive amount of users posting messages making fun of the alt right movement, painting neo nazies like the idiots they are and criticizing the site user base wouldn't have been a better way than outright censorship. It would have really tested the supposedly pro free speech stance of that site. I mean I'm being a bit tongue in cheek there but I'm really not sure if…

I dare you to make an account on gab.com and TRY to find a neo-nazi on there. There are certainly a lot of conservative and right-wing opinions on there, but I've yet to see a neo-nazi. You're believing what your left-wing social media stream is telling you instead of thinking for yourself.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#232

Post by cynix »

travisp wrote: post #208
m0xte wrote: post #104

The privacy stance is just marketing. They have handed over iCloud keys and data to the state in China already. If they cared about privacy over market dominance that wouldn’t have happened. Unfortunately as an iOS user tied to the ecosystem this puts me in a difficult situation ethically speaking. I am sponsoring this. Perhaps I should stop buying into corporate marketing ideologies. Got burned by that before (Micro…

Apple has not handed over the iCloud keys and has testified in the US under penalty of perjury that they have not done this and not made an exception for China. Repeating this is dangerous because it’ll cause people to take different (probably less safe and private) actions based on incorrect information.

> has testified in the US under penalty of perjury that they have not done this

Craig Federighi testified that he’s not aware of them doing it. That doesn’t preclude the possibility that it has been done by someone else in the company without his knowledge.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#233

Post by UIZealot »

roca wrote: post #161
UIZealot wrote: post #141

It helps to know a little bit about what's been going on in Hong Kong, before you all decide to line up and take your daily dump on China. It all started a few months ago when someone committed a crime in Taiwan and fled to Hong Kong. To prevent HK from becoming a safe haven for criminals, the Chief Executive of HK proposed a new law to facilitate extradition of these crime suspects from HK to various jurisdictions i…

That is a very one-sided summary. For example you omitted the important fact that Taiwan's government very early made it clear that they did not want the extradition law. You omitted any mention of police violence. You omitted how China pressured Cathay Pacific to identify and punish its staff involved in (peaceful, legal) protests. You decline to explain why the HK government refused to officially withdraw the extra…

That's the gist of it. Of course I omitted a lot of things, and not all of them are in the protesters's favor either.

> You omitted how China pressured Cathay Pacific to identify and punish its staff involved in (peaceful, legal) protests.

A pilot who took part in violent protests was barred from flying in China's air space.

Some other employee who illegally leaked customer information where disciplined or fired.

Please tell us how those punishments are unfair.

> You omitted any mention of police violence.

The police were never violent before the protesters got violent. They simply responded in kind. You think they should just stand still and take the beating/burning?

> you omitted the important fact that Taiwan's government very early made it clear that they did not want the extradition law.

> You decline to explain why the HK government refused to officially withdraw the extradition law for months after declaring it "dead".

The chief executive officially announced its withdrawal about a month ago.

How are you going to justify the continuing violence and destruction since then?

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#234

Post by Fnoord »

saagarjha wrote: post #199
Fnoord wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not what they're saying: they just don't want it on Hacker News. They decided that not only they do not want to see it on HN; they don't want anyone to see it on HN. > You're free to use a website which uses an API to include/exclude based on a whitelist or blacklist. Use RSS with it, et voila. It is a practical solution which does not require third party tools. Also, it is about more than you; it allows you…

> They decided that not only they do not want to see it on HN; they don't want anyone to see it on HN. Right, which as far as I can tell is essentially the Kacker News guidelines in what to submit.

> Right, which as far as I can tell is essentially the Kacker News guidelines in what to submit.

Or perhaps your (wishful) interpretation of the guidelines?

Quoting [1]:

> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.

> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys intellectual curiosity, the value of the site.

(Emphasis mine.) This is also my last post on this subject with you. Have a good one.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#235

Post by travisp »

cynix wrote: post #232
travisp wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has not handed over the iCloud keys and has testified in the US under penalty of perjury that they have not done this and not made an exception for China. Repeating this is dangerous because it’ll cause people to take different (probably less safe and private) actions based on incorrect information.

> has testified in the US under penalty of perjury that they have not done this Craig Federighi testified that he’s not aware of them doing it. That doesn’t preclude the possibility that it has been done by someone else in the company without his knowledge.

The possibility that someone in the company is secretly (how!?) providing the Chinese government access to the encryption keys is a wildly different claim. There is no evidence that Apple has done it, and an important executive has testified that they have not, and they've publicly stated they haven't, even if you want to speculate that it has happened.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#236

Post by travisp »

skrowl wrote: post #228
travisp wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has not handed over the iCloud keys and has testified in the US under penalty of perjury that they have not done this and not made an exception for China. Repeating this is dangerous because it’ll cause people to take different (probably less safe and private) actions based on incorrect information.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/10/technology/apple-china-iclo... Not only has Apple given the iCloud keys to the kingdom to China, iCloud is actually run by the state in China

The article is misleading. Apple has not given the iCloud encryption keys to the Chinese government. As far as I'm aware, there is currently no evidence that the Chinese government is any more capable of accessing iCloud data than any other government.

From a later article from the same source, Apple states: "Apple has not created nor were we requested to create any backdoors and Apple will continue to retain control over the encryption keys to iCloud data"

https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/28/technology/apple-icloud-dat...

I'm not saying it's not concerning, and China can still request a particular users data, but let's be accurate.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#237

Post by CrackerNews »

mmsimanga wrote: post #86
ewoodrich wrote: post #3

From NBC News reporter @DylanByers on Twitter: “We created the App Store to be a safe and trusted place to discover apps. We have learned that an app, HKmap.live, has been used in ways that endanger law enforcement and residents in Hong Kong. Many concerned customers in Hong Kong have contacted us about this app and we immediately began investigating it. The app displays police locations and we have verified with the…

As someone who has lived under a dictatorship this messaging has a familiar feel. As the now late dictator was clamping (beating and killing) down on opposition parties the press statements would always say something along the lines of, "we are protecting the rights of law abiding citizens". He never ever said I do not like anyone disagreeing with me.

What dictator is this by the way? Just curious.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#238

Post by faitswulff »

The app was reinstated:

> Following the outcry, Apple decided to admit the HKmap.live app to the App Store yesterday, where it is now available to download. The app developers were happy with this outcome, saying that they believed the decision was more of a bureaucratic issue rather than a political decision and writing, “We understand @Apple have many business considerations, but since they already make thing right I don’t see any point to keep pressing.”

Source: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-hk-protest-map...

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#239

Post by klagermkii »

faitswulff wrote: post #238

The app was reinstated: > Following the outcry, Apple decided to admit the HKmap.live app to the App Store yesterday, where it is now available to download. The app developers were happy with this outcome, saying that they believed the decision was more of a bureaucratic issue rather than a political decision and writing, “We understand @Apple have many business considerations, but since they already make thing right…

Yes, but now it's pulled again. The link you have is from October 6th.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#240

Post by NeedMoreTea »

faitswulff wrote: post #238

The app was reinstated: > Following the outcry, Apple decided to admit the HKmap.live app to the App Store yesterday, where it is now available to download. The app developers were happy with this outcome, saying that they believed the decision was more of a bureaucratic issue rather than a political decision and writing, “We understand @Apple have many business considerations, but since they already make thing right…

This is a follow-on to that, it's been removed again.
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