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How bullying may shape adolescent brains

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Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#51

Post by Nasrudith »

traderjane wrote: post #19
devoply wrote: post #2

Bullies themselves need counselling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment. We focus so much on the victims, we also need to focus on the perpetrators and see them as victims as well if not of anything else than their own psychology.

Western bullying literature suggests that bullying is more like a position that people step in and out of, whereas victimhood is sticky to the individual. It’s easier to predict victims than bullies, and it’s difficult to predict how long someone will remain in the bully position. Bullying predicts general protective effects on the individual and social well-being. It also predicts that peers will rate the bully well…

Yeah in any school the anti-bullying campaigns are pathetic charades 9 out of 10 times as the amazing selective perception of teachers and faculty strikes again and again to "whatever is an annoyance to them".

That is the true reason for lasting trauma and damage to victims - why they cheer at the deaths and destitution of their tormentors decades later. Because finally the assholes get what they deserve. Those who express horror get flipped the bird because they were the same sort of complicit assholes.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#52

Post by bullytw2019 »

luckylion wrote: post #37
saagarjha wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that perspective, stopping a bully is more effective than helping a victim, because bullies often have more than one target.

That would be the purely financial angle (provided that it's accurate), it doesn't take into account who deserves the help more (which is a moral judgement and is hard to agree on) and how much more. If somebody attacks somebody else and hurts themselves in the process and they both end up needing a new kidney and only one transplant is available, who gets it? Instead of punishing robbers, why don't we just give them…

> If somebody attacks somebody else and hurts themselves in the process and they both end up needing a new kidney and only one transplant is available, who gets it?

bad analogy, because in this case it's more like one person's kidney got destroyed and the other lost a lung.

You want different types of specialists to deal with victims vs bullies. Assigning the wrong type will probably just make things worse.

> Instead of punishing robbers, why don't we just give them enough money to live luxurious lives so they aren't tempted to rob any more people?

One could argue that's part of the idea behind Universal Basic Income. That if your needs are being met by UBI, you really "shouldn't" have a reason to need to rob, so at that point they don't have any excuses. (I have skepticism about that in practice, but I get the concept at least.)

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#53

Post by fortran77 »

I wonder if the people with these brain differences were more susceptible to bullying because of the social cues they express. So it's not bullying shaping brains, it's different types of brains get bullied more.

Perhaps they should look at the brains of bullies, too.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#54

Post by zozbot234 »

Nasrudith wrote: post #46
andoofthewoods wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's a huge assumption you're making. Narcissists and Sociopaths make up 1% of the population each. To characterise most young bullies as narcissists/sociopaths when A - Their brains are still developing, and B - They're at an impressionable age where their sociability is highly moulded by their environment (e.g. parents) is disingenuous.

I suspect we have even worse matters than the 1% - they are often contagious as you see their actions and rationalizations adopted by not technically sociopaths and narcissists because they are rewarded for it. And just like other conditioned for behavior done independently of when it would actually help them.

> you see their actions and rationalizations adopted by not technically sociopaths and narcissists

Yup, that's the real issue. The sociopaths and narcissists may only be 2% to 4% of the population but those are the actual bullies, so to speak - those who are most clever at manipulating others into adopting similar behaviors and attitudes. Thus some youths who seem to be bullies may actually be victims of manipulation by somebody they look up to, but they will stop their behavior once the attitude around them changes for the better.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#56

Post by HNLurker2 »

fortran77 wrote: post #53

I wonder if the people with these brain differences were more susceptible to bullying because of the social cues they express. So it's not bullying shaping brains, it's different types of brains get bullied more. Perhaps they should look at the brains of bullies, too.

Just because your brain is different doesn't mean it's not working -- Alan Turing

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#57

Post by maceurt »

devoply wrote: post #2

Bullies themselves need counselling on managing their own needs and emotions rather than punishment. We focus so much on the victims, we also need to focus on the perpetrators and see them as victims as well if not of anything else than their own psychology.

I agree with you. If you are a child then you are almost entirely dependent on your home and school environment for cues on social development. If a child is bullying another kid then you can almost guarantee it is a problem with their home or with the school.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#58

Post by empath75 »

TrackerFF wrote: post #28

Here's my take: For most people, success in life, is tied up with your self-confidence. If you think you're gonna fail, you probably are - unless you happen to be wildly talented at something, and can stumble your way to success. In fact, many people will not even try, because they lacked the confidence. It could be academia, work, relationships, hobbies, If you've been conditioned to believe that you: suck, have no…

For me it started with bullying from my mom and continued with bullying in school. The only thing that pulled me out of it was time and MDMA. I don’t think I got my shit together until my mid 30s. Now I’ve got a family and a successful career. But I could have very easily have ended up drunk in a gutter somewhere.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#59

Post by tempguy9999 »

TrackerFF wrote: post #28

Here's my take: For most people, success in life, is tied up with your self-confidence. If you think you're gonna fail, you probably are - unless you happen to be wildly talented at something, and can stumble your way to success. In fact, many people will not even try, because they lacked the confidence. It could be academia, work, relationships, hobbies, If you've been conditioned to believe that you: suck, have no…

Can confirm, and I'm a lot older than 30. It's done huge, irrecoverable damage, caused me a lot of serious mental problems (recovering now from a year of serious crap that made me unable to work for a year). I'm actually pretty mentally robust at core, but that got beaten out of me (or, I should say, out of us). Memory and personality problems etc. Drug problems. Few life/sex partners because you're so wound up you can't deal with people normally and can react abnormally.

Not all bullying happens at school, and it's so much worse because you can't escape from it in the place you're supposed to be safe. You don't even realise it's abnormal because it is your normal. I'm not going to spell it out, you can read between the lines.

Re: How bullying may shape adolescent brains

#60

Post by tempguy9999 »

HNLurker2 wrote: post #55

The only way to overcome your bully is to face him, leave him or cope (learned the hard way)

And if the bully is your parents, which of these do you recommend?

Edit: sorry, that was an unnecessary response by me. Clearly you weren't thinking in those terms. Apologies.

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