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Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

scientificamerican.com

31–40 of 73 posts

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#31

i feel like my brain is too abstract to accept the idea of something can be at multiple places at once, feels like a chess game, in which every possible move is already known, you only chose one at a time, and thus you decrease the possibilities toward your goal, and there is no go back.

I have trouble with this especially since I’m not sure if the language they’re using is just creating a misunderstanding.

My example is quantum entanglement, which judging from a lot of sci-fi, people think means you literally have the same particle in two places, and changing it in one place changes it instantly in the other. Really it just breaks entanglement and you now have two different particles (so you can’t use it for FTL communication, hear that sci-fi authors?). It took me awhile to understand that, and I’m sure I have similar misunderstandings about this.

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a quantummechanic standpoint its wrong to say, that its at two places at once. I really dont like the Headline. Superposition means, that it didnt decide for one of the two possible states, and so these both exist in superposition.

Can you say it’s moving between two places with an infinite frequency?

[deleted]

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#33

Please correct me where I am wrong, I have only studied quantum physics as a hobby. I dislike this description of things existing in two places at once, this is because I believe that objects exist in one place, then they move to the next place. The interference pattern only highlights the probability of where the particle will be when it's next observed, or "where it moved to". The object does not interfere with its…

To go further, I have a colleague who says there are actually no particles, only waves interacting with other waves. I am trying to get him to make a proper thesis out of this but he is busy trying to earn money to support his family. If there are any theories about this, please link them in the thread! It sort of resonates with what Richard Feynman has been demonstrating in some of his lectures but I have not been able to find the right keywords to search the internet, or the best way to ask scientists.

Problems of hobby scientists...

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm off shooting cats through two slits I made in my living room wall now, to prove or disprove you. For Science!

Always wondered about the backstory for Bill the Cat.

Ackk!

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#35

Please correct me where I am wrong, I have only studied quantum physics as a hobby. I dislike this description of things existing in two places at once, this is because I believe that objects exist in one place, then they move to the next place. The interference pattern only highlights the probability of where the particle will be when it's next observed, or "where it moved to". The object does not interfere with its…

To go further, I have a colleague who says there are actually no particles, only waves interacting with other waves. I am trying to get him to make a proper thesis out of this but he is busy trying to earn money to support his family. If there are any theories about this, please link them in the thread! It sort of resonates with what Richard Feynman has been demonstrating in some of his lectures but I have not been a…

It is called Quantum Field Theory.

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#36
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To go further, I have a colleague who says there are actually no particles, only waves interacting with other waves. I am trying to get him to make a proper thesis out of this but he is busy trying to earn money to support his family. If there are any theories about this, please link them in the thread! It sort of resonates with what Richard Feynman has been demonstrating in some of his lectures but I have not been a…

It is called Quantum Field Theory.

Thanks!

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#37

Please correct me where I am wrong, I have only studied quantum physics as a hobby. I dislike this description of things existing in two places at once, this is because I believe that objects exist in one place, then they move to the next place. The interference pattern only highlights the probability of where the particle will be when it's next observed, or "where it moved to". The object does not interfere with its…

> the wave is something separate from the object but is related to it.

This is a common idea in Bohmian epistemology, but, speaking as a professional physicist, I don't think most physicists would hold this position. The wave is the object, the object is the wave. "Particle/wave duality" or whatever is just bad language for "a quantum mechanical thing"

I think the point of saying it "exists at two places at once" is that if the molecule exhibited classical behavior then it either would have gone through slit 1 or slit 2, and you'd see two peaks of probability. Instead, you see an interference experiment, so the molecule went... well, here's where language difficulty comes in.

It 'went' through both slits 1 and 2?

'It' went through both slits 1 and 2?

Its wavefunction went through both slit 1 and slit 2?

Its wavefunction went through both slit 1 and slit 2 without becoming entangled with anything else?

However, whatever it did, quantum mechanics is clear about one thing: [something] [moved] THROUGH the screen! That is, because probability current [1] is conserved as a direct result of the Schrödinger equation, it definitely did not happen that the molecule vanished on one side in a puff of smoke and WHAM appeared on the other side.

So, the molecule "went through the screen", if what you mean is "at the beginning almost all of the probability was on one side of the screen and smoothly evolved to be mostly on the other". Or, rather, at the beginning you measured the position to be definitively on one side of the screen and it smoothly evolved so that later it hit the target, so that its probability was non-negligible on the other side of the screen.

Or, strictly speaking, it went forward through the screen one more time than it backtracked... You're right that the molecule didn't have to take some classically-expected "beautiful" trajectory (straight line, parabola, whatever). In fact it did all sorts of crazy things, coherently. Saying that it was coherent is a shortcut for saying that all those crazy ways' probability amplitudes sum (so that they might interfere), rather than their probabilities directly.

"occupy two places at once" is just bad language for what things do quantum mechanically. For example, "occupy" is laden with classical expectations---if a solid metal ball occupies a space, air does not. But that's not how quantum mechanics works. You can have a weird quantum mechanical state like

"ball at x and air at y"+"ball at y and air at x".

In neither addend of the sum are ball and air at the same place (just as you'd expect classically). But if you look at the sum and decide only to look at the description of the ball and forget about the air you'd decide that the ball "occupies two places at once".

Of course rather than "air" you can put "nothing" or "vacuum" or whatever. But it still isn't the case that the ball is taking up twice its volume---it's taking up its full volume, but in two alternative ways? Again, language isn't great here.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability_current

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#38

Please correct me where I am wrong, I have only studied quantum physics as a hobby. I dislike this description of things existing in two places at once, this is because I believe that objects exist in one place, then they move to the next place. The interference pattern only highlights the probability of where the particle will be when it's next observed, or "where it moved to". The object does not interfere with its…

The problem you are having (I think) is this damned phraseology we have grown accustomed to "in two places at once". That's not the proper way to think about it. Anything and everything can be in a superposition of location and state where the location or state is not determined until forced to by some measurement/interaction. The universe if you will is not determined. It's in a superposition of states and positions to be later determined when acted upon.

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#39
post #24

Since the molecule of 2000 atoms exists in two places, it doubles the mass. Doesn’t this break the law of conservation of mass and energy. Can someone please explain how this is possible.

Please see my other comment in this thread, especially the part about "occupying space"---the issue is exactly the same with mass.

Re: Giant Molecules Exist in Two Places at Once in Quantum Experiment

#40
The original paper, fortunately linked in the article, is quite readable:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41567-019-0663-9

I was expecting it to discuss the largest species previously shown to demonstrate an interference pattern, but unfortunately there was none.

Other points of note:

Regarding the choice of molecule, and specifically fluorination:

> An intense neutral beam of intact molecules is a prerequisite for our experiments, but soft neutral volatilization and post-ionization of complex molecules is an outstanding technical challenge. While matrix-assisted laser desorption and electrospray ionization are useful tools for molecular analysis, the charged beams they pro- duce are incompatible with the stringent dephasing requirements of interferometry. Continuous effusive thermal beams, on the other hand, suffer from thermal fragmentation for masses beyond a few kilodaltons. This can be overcome via fluoroalkyl-functionalization of the molecules, which adds mass, reduces the polarizability-to- mass ratio and increases volatility

The group sees another factor of 10 increase in the ability to measure interference:

> With advances in beam sources for biomolecules and metal clusters26,27, techniques to cool the particles below 80K (refs.28,29), and refined grating26 and imaging technologies30, our experiment is scalable and will push matter-wave interference and macroscopicity tests by another order of magnitude24

The Coriolis effect was corrected at least in part mechanically rather than purely computationally:

> Compensation of the Coriolis effect is critical to obtaining high-visibility interference fringes in LUMI. By tilting the gratings, we introduce a gravitational deflection that opposes the Coriolis shift ...

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