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Apple is not your friend

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Re: Apple is not your friend

#51

Post by _Understated_ »

jackweirdy wrote: post #27
_Understated_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If given no alternative choice that is evil-free, I will chose the least evil option as my vote. I was on Android until the start of 2019 when my wife bought a new iPhone and I took her 6S. I'd had enough of Android spying on me. My argument was the same as yours: Apple don't make (that much) money off my data so they MUST be better than Google. Right? When I think about it, I honestly cannot say that they have bet…

I don't think services have to be open source for us to trust their privacy. In the context of Apple there has been enough conflict in the press with the FBI and other authorities that their actions speak enough I can trust them in the absence of source code. And I think there is enough financial strategy for other companies - such as Samsung, who for example sell smart TVs at a loss to recoup money from Ad/tracking…

>I don't think services have to be open source for us to trust their privacy.

I agree that we don't NEED open source but it would definitely help.

In all honesty I'm not sure any corporation could fully reassure everyone that they are trustworthy but being open source would at least show they are serious about it: they may have a back door but there's a risk it will be spotted!

That being said (and is pointed out by another commenter here) Microsoft are showing that on one hand they can giveth (open sourcing .NET) and on the other they taketh away (the incessant forced telemetry).

Now that I write this I believe the answer is something like the Librem 5 with self-hosted backend infrastructure (I'm not a employee but I will be buying one at the start of 2020 when my current contract expires - I wish I had backed them at the start :()... it's not ideal but I think it's the only solution going forward.

On a slight tangent, there was an experiment done with bookies and laymen to predict winners based on 5 points of data then scaled up to around 80 points of data and it showed that the bookies were no more accurate than the laymen regardless of how much data they had at their disposal (my Google-fu is not working today so I can't find the experiment and my figures may be a bit off).

I've asked on here before for a link to research that shows more data moves the needle enough to justify its collection... At the time of writing this, I do not believe it does.

Re: Apple is not your friend

#52

Post by _Understated_ »

m0xte wrote: post #19
_Understated_ wrote: post #5

I've fallen for these mega-corp's marketing bullshit many times over the years: It's easy done! It's also easy to forget that they only care about appeasing shareholders and the way to do that is to make money. At any cost! I am currently working on a (personal) .NET Core project so I'm using Windows 10 but when it's up and running I am going to spend some serious time looking into Linux instead and developing my .NE…

I would walk away from .Net Core as well. Microsoft have proven themselves on several occasions that they don't give a crap about the end user. The whole default opt-in telemetry nightmare of .Net core is an example. The final result of the discussion was a "fuck you, we're still doing it" and nothing more. Also getting support on anything is now basically "it's open source, raise a ticket we'll never fix". And not t…

On that note, what ecosystem gives me the coverage that .NET gives? I've been Microsoft-focused for 20+ years.

By ecosystem I mean, an IDE as good as Visual Studio and the simplicity of pressing F5 to test my code... that sort of thing.

Re: Apple is not your friend

#53

Post by paulcarroty »

_Understated_ wrote: post #16
rekabis wrote: post #9

However, out of that list of four, Apple is the one that I have seen being “least evil” with me and my data. Google dropped their “don’t be evil” motto for a very damn good reason, and the safety of their own app marketplace is a fucking joke. Facebook is even worse than Google, in that it has never stopped trying to appear innocent of wrongdoing while paddling like mad under the surface. Microsoft… has gone all Spyw…

> If given no alternative choice that is evil-free, I will chose the least evil option as my vote. I was on Android until the start of 2019 when my wife bought a new iPhone and I took her 6S. I'd had enough of Android spying on me. My argument was the same as yours: Apple don't make (that much) money off my data so they MUST be better than Google. Right? When I think about it, I honestly cannot say that they have bet…

> Apple don't make (that much) money off my data so they MUST be better than Google.

What prevent them to do it later?

There's investigation about iOS/Android telemetry: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/android-devices-send-10...

Re: Apple is not your friend

#54

Post by mda »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #18
mda wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is flawed. How do you know that Apple protects personal data better than others? I think it has the least experience and probably Google is the best in that area. Microsoft is maybe second.

Apple makes money on their HW and their media sales and application sales. You have to spend the money by choice for Apple to make money. What does most of the world pay Google for? At Google you are the product. Why is that so hard for everyone to understand. The same goes for FB.

I don't see a big difference, I would trust my data with the competent one. Especially when I look at Apple / China situation. It just shows what their actual focus is.

Re: Apple is not your friend

#55

Post by saagarjha »

youngtaff wrote: post #39
batmenace wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, Apple, unlike Google and Facebook, is not an advertising company. Selling your data is not part of their business model

Apple has advertising service lines though - https://searchads.apple.com Which is essentially selling data in the same way that other advertisers do…

> Which is essentially selling data in the same way that other advertisers do…

Not really: https://searchads.apple.com/privacy/

Re: Apple is not your friend

#56

Post by m0xte »

romanovcode wrote: post #46
m0xte wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would walk away from .Net Core as well. Microsoft have proven themselves on several occasions that they don't give a crap about the end user. The whole default opt-in telemetry nightmare of .Net core is an example. The final result of the discussion was a "fuck you, we're still doing it" and nothing more. Also getting support on anything is now basically "it's open source, raise a ticket we'll never fix". And not t…

> opt-in telemetry nightmare of .Net core `export DOTNET_CLI_TELEMETRY_OPTOUT=1`. Wow, such nightmare.

They actually broke it so that didn't work for a bit.

That's enough to cause a major issue in some organisations with strict security policies.

Opt in telemetry is fine. Opt out definitely not. This is a major inversion of policy.

Re: Apple is not your friend

#57

Post by m0xte »

_Understated_ wrote: post #52
m0xte wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would walk away from .Net Core as well. Microsoft have proven themselves on several occasions that they don't give a crap about the end user. The whole default opt-in telemetry nightmare of .Net core is an example. The final result of the discussion was a "fuck you, we're still doing it" and nothing more. Also getting support on anything is now basically "it's open source, raise a ticket we'll never fix". And not t…

On that note, what ecosystem gives me the coverage that .NET gives? I've been Microsoft-focused for 20+ years. By ecosystem I mean, an IDE as good as Visual Studio and the simplicity of pressing F5 to test my code... that sort of thing.

I've been using Microsoft stacks since 1991. I am at home with Python, an editor and a terminal at this point.

F5 to run is terribly inefficient in the long run (wait until you get a 2MLOC recompile and then secondary compile when your project is starting in IIS)

Re: Apple is not your friend

#58

Post by ohduran »

oska wrote: post #50
ohduran wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My broader point is that you as a consumer have no means to directly affect the decisions being taken by companies, other than choosing with your feet and go buy to another company or, in the case where there is no real alternative to big techs, boycott. Now, at this point, it occurred to me that if I want to access the market being created by Apple Store, I have to comply with the rules of that market. That's it. Pr…

Your thinking is all over the place. You've changed your criticism of capitalism into one of monopolies. Everyone understands that monopolies tend towards abuse of customers/consumers, including capitalists.

You're right, I haven't expressed myself in the best terms.

Re: Apple is not your friend

#59

Post by paulcarroty »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #18
mda wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is flawed. How do you know that Apple protects personal data better than others? I think it has the least experience and probably Google is the best in that area. Microsoft is maybe second.

Apple makes money on their HW and their media sales and application sales. You have to spend the money by choice for Apple to make money. What does most of the world pay Google for? At Google you are the product. Why is that so hard for everyone to understand. The same goes for FB.

> At Google you are the product.

Nothing prevent Microsoft to sells Windows Home/Pro as beta version of Enterprise and gets money & free QA.

If you pays money nothing guarantee your personal data will be used too.

Re: Apple is not your friend

#60

Post by paulcarroty »

jeswin wrote: post #24

I have a lot of privacy concerns with Google. But they have also enabled my phone to run on mostly Open Source code, both OS and applications. This is important to me, and for that reason I bunch them apart from Apple and MS.

> mostly Open Source code, both OS and applications.

It's not true. Without closed kernel drivers and closed-source Play Store/Youtube/Pay apps any Android is just piece of plastic.

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