Live data from Hacker News

Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

reason.com

271–280 of 316 posts

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the EU, shops are required to display the price per , i. e. all coffees have a (usually smaller, but readable) Euro/500g price. There used to be an even more drastic law proscribing certain sizes and disallowing all others. Flour would only be available in 500g and 1kg bags, for example. They got rid of it, possibly because they got sick of people making fun of EU regulations (that's what happened with the famous…

Sadly it doesn't translate very well to every kind of grocery item. Kitchen paper towels and toilet paper can still give you a pretty good math exercise to figure out what's more affordable.

And when I think about it, those are 2 items I’d like to buy by the kilogram.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#272
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've optimized for the wrong things-- short-term profit while making the products crappy. For example almost all of the household appliances I've purchased in the past 7 years have failed because of poor design and inferior plastic parts. My expensive oven doesn't have enough insulation around the electronic control and its failed from heat, etc etc.

More anecdotes. While you complain about your Owen, the efficient supply chains built across nations has enabled keeping costs low enough for Americans with stagnating wages to afford a reasonable standard of living.

One of the big efficiencies they've found though, is that no one prices externalities properly.

By damaging the rest of society in ways that they're not directly accounted for, they find new ways to profit. Many have stayed competitive by costing the human race more that they provide in the long term in many cases.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the EU, shops are required to display the price per , i. e. all coffees have a (usually smaller, but readable) Euro/500g price. Grocery stores in the US do this, but it's not something you necessarily see in food service shops.

> Grocery stores in the US do this, but it's not something you necessarily see in food service shops. They do an absolute shit job of it, because there are no standards or regulations. Most times I see this, similar items next to each other on the shelf are using different "standard" units making comparison impossible (e.g. price per ounce vs. price per piece). I've even seen two sizes of the same brand/product use d…

Safeway does this on the west coast. Annoying, not to mention using English/American units that are difficult to convert (how many ounces in a gallon?).

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#274
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be your experience based on what you shop for and where you do it. America is way behind Europe on this. 99% of the time I go to Safeway, I have to bring out my calculator because the reference volume/weight is different from the other items on the same shelf.

Interesting, yeah the Safeways I've been to have all had price per ounce pretty consistently. What is a bit irritating is having to recalculate when items are discounted.

They usually include the price per for the discounted tag also. Only when it’s a buy x get y free is it hard.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Grocery stores in the US do this, but it's not something you necessarily see in food service shops. They do an absolute shit job of it, because there are no standards or regulations. Most times I see this, similar items next to each other on the shelf are using different "standard" units making comparison impossible (e.g. price per ounce vs. price per piece). I've even seen two sizes of the same brand/product use d…

You're being way over dramatic. 99% of the time the unit makes sense and is the same for comparable products.

Most stores near me make the lettering very small... if you don't have near perfect vision good luck reading the price per ounce.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#276
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pessimistic outcome of climate change isn't "wild exponential predictions", though. There are well-understood mechanisms, the margin for temperature increase beyond which modern society collapses is pretty thin, the exponent comes primarily[0] from our economy which has an assumption of exponential growth built-in and will collapse if it suddenly turns into s-curve, and we also have a model of a runaway warming f…

What climate change effect [0] do you think will cause societal collapse or result in mass horrible deaths? [0]: https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

Hundreds of millions of people migrating from areas that become uninhabitable from sea level rise and increased temperatures, trying to get into any country that's less affected. Europe just almost tore itself apart over few million war refugees, imagine 100 times more people, with nothing to lose and a valid argument that it's all our fault they don't have a home now.

Food pressure, as arable land is lost to the sea and temperatures[0], plus collapsing ecosystems as insects and plants with high vulnerability to temperatures die off. Food prices increase, risk of food shortage increases too, and so does social unrest.

As some land is lost, other land becomes available, "defrosted" by the changing climate. With reduced agricultural capability and migratory pressures, nations will want to compete for both that new land and resources available on it. This could lead to war.

I could elaborate, but let me instead tell you to look at the problem in reverse: think of how little it takes to cause "mass horrible deaths". Most people live in cities now, and most cities are fed "just-in-time", which means there's 3-5 days worth of food in them. Imagine what happens if you break that supply chain for more than a week. Imagine this happening to multiple cities in a country simultaneously.

--

[0] - You can't e.g. think that a +4°C Poland can just switch from wheat to bananas. Bananas may like the new summers, but won't survive the winters.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 99% this is _not_ a EU thing. Maybe some German law?? Or just common practice in Germany? Edit: I think I confused your response with parent. I understand price/kg is a thing although I didn't knew it was mandated by law. What I don't understand is being forced to use some odd unit like price per 500g.

I do not remember ever seeing price per 500g

Yep, every item I see is price per kg. I can't think of exceptions.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do that in the EU/Germany, too €/item, €/100g, €/1kg are all common

At least comparing 100g to 1kg is trivial.

It may be trivial, but it can be equally trivial for a manufacturer to to use misleading fonts or units to cause sufficient confusion to increase sales by a small margin. Every label under every product I see has the price per kg preventing such deception.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Grocery stores in the US do this, but it's not something you necessarily see in food service shops. They do an absolute shit job of it, because there are no standards or regulations. Most times I see this, similar items next to each other on the shelf are using different "standard" units making comparison impossible (e.g. price per ounce vs. price per piece). I've even seen two sizes of the same brand/product use d…

Safeway does this on the west coast. Annoying, not to mention using English/American units that are difficult to convert (how many ounces in a gallon?).

Fluid ounces, you mean. 128. Not a fan of base 2, I take it.

Re: Americans Are Using Less Steel, Paper, Fertilizer, and Energy

#280
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being way over dramatic. 99% of the time the unit makes sense and is the same for comparable products.

That may be your experience based on what you shop for and where you do it. America is way behind Europe on this. 99% of the time I go to Safeway, I have to bring out my calculator because the reference volume/weight is different from the other items on the same shelf.

When I want to buy cherry tomatoes in German REWE, usually half the varieties have their unit price listed in €/100g, while the rest is in €/1kg. While metric does make converting in your head easy, I bet this still throws off a lot of the non-mathematical people and is done very much intentionally.
Post reply on HN