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Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

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Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#251

Post by NeedMoreTea »

Nexxxeh wrote: post #246
kaybe wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit more difficult than that, I think. If you look at free speech in Europe for example, in eg Germany there are laws against hate speech or defamation of individual people (quite differentiated, an opinion is ok and true facts are ok, but invented facts are not). One of the targets is Nazi propaganda, and in general the support is good. Still, the goal is similar, social stability, peace and protection of min…

In the UK (Scotland specifically) we had the ridiculous prosecution of Markus "Count Dankula" Meechan. We've certainly not found the right balance over here.

Read the actual judgement, and it's just about impossible to conclude that the conviction was anything but deserved and perfectly balanced.

The judge explicitly asked his defence to explore freedom of expression. He chose not to. The rest of his "defence" was laughable and easily disproved lies. The judge pointed out his failure to explore freedom of expression in his summing up. Short of using neon, how much more clearly could the judge have telegraphed it? The conviction was therefore on pure technical breach of the law with no mitigation.

Markus Meechan was left looking like a complete moron who threw away his opportunity of defence. In addition to being a bottom feeding racist. Oh, and a scammer as he crowdsourced a load of money for the defence he didn't bother offering.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#252

Post by Nexxxeh »

overcast wrote: post #204
ohithereyou wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TF2 is also less aggressively monetized despite being free to play.

What exactly is monetized in Overwatch? A bunch of silly skins you don't need? Everything is included, they are constantly updating, and releasing new characters, all for no additional cost. Best $20 I've ever spent for a multiplayer game.

And they give out Loot Boxes like candy in game. There's no need to purchase them. Play some games? Loot box. Be a positive player? Loot boxes. New event? Loot boxes. Play "Anything but DPS" right now? Loot Box.

I've bought game merch and London Spitfire (Overwatch League) merch, I've bought the OWL Pass thingy, I've cheered bits. And I bought the game at launch (no pre-order).

I've played a lot for a casual player, and I've watched even more. It's the only esport that I've enjoyed watching.

Only once did I ever buy Loot Boxes.

That purchase of Loot Boxes was because they brought out a new event that I loved, for free, and it seemed like a cheap but quantifiable way of showing support for what they were doing. I didn't need any of the skins.

I felt the way they've done Loot Boxes is "Loot Boxes Done Right".

So this feels like a real kick in the balls.

The home stand games for OWL will be brutal. Fan signs are already a bit rough on old Blizz on occasions. I'd give it three matches before a "FREE HONG KONG" sign makes it onto broadcast and there's a massive shitshow.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#253

Post by hktruth »

hnick wrote: post #193
harshreality wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong's entire value , as far as I can see [and I'm referring to the value of Hong Kong as a community including people and businesses, not just their geographic value], either as a place to live or to do business or to visit, comes from it being a SAR with its own government, culture, historical legacy, and lack of interference from its mother country. If it becomes a homogenized satellite of Shenzhen with sky h…

What proportion of China's economy is HK? I don't know a good source but I recall seeing it's a low single digit percentage of China as a whole. They definitely punch above their weight per capita but I feel like China is more than willing and able to take the loss. After all, with Western governments changing every few years, who will even remember in a decade?

From news reports, HK was around 27% of China's GDP in 1993 prior to handover back to China in 1997. Today, HK is less than 3% of China's GDP.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#254

Post by nsporillo »

cwkoss wrote: post #163

Somewhat tangential: Is there a website that tracks companies which do not have Chinese investors and does not use Chinese manufacturing in their supply chain? I'd like to try to avoid giving money to China, but they are so ingrained into the American economy I'm not sure how to do this in practice.

Yeah I'm in the market for a new memory foam mattress and being made in China is non starter. I'd also love to see a website like this.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#255

Post by heyoni »

kop316 wrote: post #212
patrec wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you think that complying with hard legal requirements that are a hard pre-requisite to doing business in an authoritarian country is worse than eroding freedom of speech in a non-authoritarian country? Apple can chose to operate in China and backdoor iCloud there or they can chose not to operate in China at all. It's hard for me to see how either choice will substantially affect people's liberties…

To me, this is why: https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/ Tim Cook defied the US goverment over the exact same issue, and even said: "Compromising the security of our personal information can ultimately put our personal safety at risk. That is why encryption has become so important to all of us." So to me, seeing him allow Chinese authorities access to that same data in China in the name of sales is incredibly hypoc…

This way he gets to sell iPhones in China and the Chinese should obviously avoid using iCloud. If Apple was hiding this fact then I would have a problem with it. And if the device encryption isn’t compromised, then local data is probably safer on an iPhone than a lot of other devices.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#256

Post by s1artibartfast »

Noos wrote: post #77
ddtaylor wrote: post #15

As much as I want to think change will happen, it's much more likely this will be a few weeks of PR and ultimately nothing will change. For something to change people have to vote with their wallets. In this context that means cancelling subscriptions or dropping games they are already playing in favor for ones by competitors with better integrity, and I don't see that happening. Diablo players could go to Path of Ex…

Keep in mind its Activision-Blizzard, not just Blizzard. Even if you boycotted all Blizzard products, the call of duty series and candy crush would take the hit. Also, I don't think it would work period; if Blizzard made this a hill to die on, it's because the Chinese market must be growing and higher profit than the west. The people who pay set the rules.

The fun part about this is that it is publicly disclosed information. Blizzard revenue for Q1 & Q2 2019 were 88% in Americas and EMEA, with 12% in Asia Pacific. The percents are unchanged from 2018.

https://investor.activision.com/news-releases/news-release-d...

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#257

Post by salawat »

bo1024 wrote: post #226
aeze wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that companies are willing to do it is pathetic. I don't disagree with your post at all, but I wanted to note that it's important to remember that companies aren't people, they're machines generally designed to maximize profit. Morals don't apply to them - only the law, and money does. Personally I've boycotted Blizzard in response, and I hope more people do.

I generally agree and think this is a very helpful perspective. It's too much to expect companies to choose ethics over profit, even if the companies are temporarily made up of ethical people -- these are mere components. (Hence the goal of governments/regulations should be to align profit-making with societal goals.)

>It's too much to expect companies to choose ethics over profit, even if the companies are temporarily made up of ethical people -- these are mere components.

What's with the apologist mindset there?

If you can't hold a group of people accountable for ethical conduct, from whence comes the idea that singular actors should be regulatable by traditional justice systems?

Corporations were intended to distribute risk to enable collective groups to attempt something which none individually could have hoped to do without a significant chance of losing everything.

They were not intended as a bulwark through which to engage in ethically dubious behavior in search of profit. Profit is not a right. Merely a happy byproduct of a job well done.

Ethical behavior, and actually performing a valuable service for the society hosting the corporation is the primary goal. Not profit generation.

The sheer bullheaded insistence that profit is the be all end all of human activity needs to die.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#258

Post by alkonaut »

themacguffinman wrote: post #214
alkonaut wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shouldn’t be hard though. Execs shouldn’t think “we should maximize shareholder value while following the law”. Execs should think “what will I wish I had done when I’m 90”. Does it really hurt that much to tell your shareholders “we think it’s the right thing to stand up for democracy and human rights even if it means we are bennes from China and our profits are halved”.

As much as I'd like execs to do that, I think it is actually hard. The board, made up of investors and other stakeholders, have a lot of power too. Execs can tell shareholders that they want to stand up for human rights, but shareholders can also tell execs to stand up for human rights somewhere else (ie. they get fired; execs can be fired too).

I should have been more clear: I expect execs to choose what’s right even if it means they do get fired at the first difficult choice. I mean “I need my job” or “what we are doing is legal” isn’t an excuse.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#259

Post by rendall »

alkonaut wrote: post #258
themacguffinman wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I'd like execs to do that, I think it is actually hard. The board, made up of investors and other stakeholders, have a lot of power too. Execs can tell shareholders that they want to stand up for human rights, but shareholders can also tell execs to stand up for human rights somewhere else (ie. they get fired; execs can be fired too).

I should have been more clear: I expect execs to choose what’s right even if it means they do get fired at the first difficult choice. I mean “I need my job” or “what we are doing is legal” isn’t an excuse.

I think this is naive.

Expecting a corporation's officers to enforce moral corporate behavior will generally lead to disappointment. Only law or the market will impose morality and ethical behavior on a corporation. This is by design.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#260

Post by baq »

enlyth wrote: post #122
baq wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from the looks of it (they shut down their whole subreddit for a while) their pants are a shade of brown right now. they're in a damned-if-you-do damned-if-you-don't situation and that's what the one of the comments here is alluding to by saying that they have to pick a side. there isn't going back to business as usual after this now, though they'll sure try before Chinese new years. we'll see how the bigger picture…

Just a slight correction, the subreddit has no affiliation with Blizzard, one of their mods went rogue and made it private, but it's open now and mods are in full support of the Hong Kong movement.

thanks for the correction.
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