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Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

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Re: Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

#61

Post by apotheon »

deogeo wrote: post #43
jonathanlydall wrote: post #39

When I did customer service at Blizzard Europe back around 2010 one of my immediate colleagues who could speak Chinese and English was involved in the re-launch of WoW in China. They explained that non-Chinese companies were not allowed to operate in China. What Blizzard had done was essentially a partnership, but legally they gave rights to a Chinese company to operate/use their IP in China. I suspect this is the sa…

> They explained that non-Chinese companies were not allowed to operate in China. I still find it fascinating how no-one was screaming "trade war!" at such terms. Yet respond to them with a few tariffs..

In China, nobody's allowed to complain about mercantilist policies.

In the US, nobody noticed until the US government started employing stronger mercantilist policies, then started complaining about it at home because they don't like that their own government is employing such policies.

That's probably why.

It's worth noting that punitive tariffs, in the end, are taxes on businesses in your own country, because it just raises the price of US businesses doing business (and often gets passed on to consumers, when demand for the product is strong enough to pass the cost on to consumers; otherwise, businesses just suffer and have to start cutting costs in other areas, such as by laying off workers).

Mercantilist policies hurt the local economy as much as they hurt foreign economies. Every act escalating a trade war hurts both sides.

Re: Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

#62

Post by ineedasername »

WilTimSon wrote: post #41

Gaming companies have messed up and lost gamers' trust in so many different ways: predatory microtransactions, oodles of crappy DLC, half-finished products being shipped with huge Day 1 patches, etc. But all those were directly related to the industry and could at least be bounced back from if the company removed transactions/made meaningful DLC/improved the state of their games in the future. How the hell do you bou…

>How the hell do you bounce back from this?

I'm depressingly pessimistic about there being any long or even short-term consequences for this. 5 Years ago? Maybe it would have been harder to ride out. But these days you need not wait long, sometime no longer than a few days, before the next outrage of the moment rears its head. Society has become inured to it, which in turn means organizations like the NBA or Blizzard have become inoculated from the consequences.

Re: Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

#63

Post by jdoliner »

WilTimSon wrote: post #41

Gaming companies have messed up and lost gamers' trust in so many different ways: predatory microtransactions, oodles of crappy DLC, half-finished products being shipped with huge Day 1 patches, etc. But all those were directly related to the industry and could at least be bounced back from if the company removed transactions/made meaningful DLC/improved the state of their games in the future. How the hell do you bou…

That's exactly how they're going to bounce back from it, it's going to be easy for the game companies, and it's going to work great. Or, more likely, they won't have to bounce back from it at all. The people cancelling their accounts will be back within a month. Gamers will tolerate anything, unless there's a better game that they'd rather play they're not going anywhere.

Re: Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

#64

Post by apotheon »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #52
WilTimSon wrote: post #41

Gaming companies have messed up and lost gamers' trust in so many different ways: predatory microtransactions, oodles of crappy DLC, half-finished products being shipped with huge Day 1 patches, etc. But all those were directly related to the industry and could at least be bounced back from if the company removed transactions/made meaningful DLC/improved the state of their games in the future. How the hell do you bou…

>"Oh, sorry, player base, we didn't mean to support a totalitarian regime that slaughtered innocents and suppresses free speech. Have a cool skin!" But what can they do if they are headquartered there?

I'm pretty sure Blizzard is still headquartered in California. Some people have mistaken California for China, but I assure you it's a different place.

Re: Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

#65

Post by WilTimSon »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #52
WilTimSon wrote: post #41

Gaming companies have messed up and lost gamers' trust in so many different ways: predatory microtransactions, oodles of crappy DLC, half-finished products being shipped with huge Day 1 patches, etc. But all those were directly related to the industry and could at least be bounced back from if the company removed transactions/made meaningful DLC/improved the state of their games in the future. How the hell do you bou…

>"Oh, sorry, player base, we didn't mean to support a totalitarian regime that slaughtered innocents and suppresses free speech. Have a cool skin!" But what can they do if they are headquartered there?

I mean, it's not like there are plenty of other countries where they can put a headquarters? Countries with lower rent prices, more lenient taxes, less horrible governments, etc.

I know it's not that simple to move a company elsewhere but if you're in an oppressive state and your business is suffering because you have to bow the overlords, maybe it's time to run.

Re: Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

#66

Post by henry_bone »

It might be time for democratic countries to consider not trading with China. China is totalitarian and marxist and is therefore incompatible with democratic values. But still democratic governments and corporations aim to trade with China because it's a massive market and there's plenty of money to be made.

The Australian Prime Minister is between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, China is our major trade partner. On the other hand, America is our ally and also a major trade partner. So Morrison has to dance with each.

Blizzard, I read, have significant investment from China, and China are a massive market for them. So they self-censor in order to stay in China's good graces.

I don't see how corporations and countries can do business in China, without compromising their values and possibly stepping on the values of citizens/customers in democratic countries.

Re: Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

#68

Post by deogeo »

apotheon wrote: post #61
deogeo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They explained that non-Chinese companies were not allowed to operate in China. I still find it fascinating how no-one was screaming "trade war!" at such terms. Yet respond to them with a few tariffs..

In China, nobody's allowed to complain about mercantilist policies. In the US, nobody noticed until the US government started employing stronger mercantilist policies, then started complaining about it at home because they don't like that their own government is employing such policies. That's probably why. It's worth noting that punitive tariffs, in the end, are taxes on businesses in your own country, because it ju…

> That's probably why.

Pretty much the entire media participated in the narrative that it was Trump that started the trade war - both in the US, and here in Europe. That's what I was referring to, not Chinese media.

> Mercantilist policies hurt the local economy as much as they hurt foreign economies.

So economists keep repeating. Yet China doesn't seem to have been hurt by their mercantilism. Because yes, in the short term, tariffs hurt, but they let local industry develop without being crushed by foreign competition. In fact, " ... none of the world's most successful trading regions, including Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and now mainland China, reached their current status by adopting neoliberal trading rules." [1]. But economic consensus remains untainted by contact with reality.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage#Criticis...

Re: Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

#69

Post by oh_sigh »

WilTimSon wrote: post #41

Gaming companies have messed up and lost gamers' trust in so many different ways: predatory microtransactions, oodles of crappy DLC, half-finished products being shipped with huge Day 1 patches, etc. But all those were directly related to the industry and could at least be bounced back from if the company removed transactions/made meaningful DLC/improved the state of their games in the future. How the hell do you bou…

I don't play modern video games, but I constantly see forum posts where gamers lament that other gamers are doing preorders for game X, because of some fault of the publisher. But these Lamentations are never heard by anyone but the minority that already cares about those things.

So the answer is there is nothing to bounce back from. A bunch of people making a stink about something on message boards is still going to only be a tiny fraction of the overall base. Most gamers just want to play fun games, and will pay their money unless there is direct evidence of the company doing something beyond the pale for all of society.

It's the same reason you don't see more bicycle riding vegans, even though ostensibly many people don't like to see animals mistreated and understand that global warming is happening.

Re: Blizzard's Weibo Account Just Posted an Apology To China

#70

Post by slenk »

jdoliner wrote: post #63
WilTimSon wrote: post #41

Gaming companies have messed up and lost gamers' trust in so many different ways: predatory microtransactions, oodles of crappy DLC, half-finished products being shipped with huge Day 1 patches, etc. But all those were directly related to the industry and could at least be bounced back from if the company removed transactions/made meaningful DLC/improved the state of their games in the future. How the hell do you bou…

That's exactly how they're going to bounce back from it, it's going to be easy for the game companies, and it's going to work great. Or, more likely, they won't have to bounce back from it at all. The people cancelling their accounts will be back within a month. Gamers will tolerate anything, unless there's a better game that they'd rather play they're not going anywhere.

Disagree - we hurt the sales of Battlefront 2.

And I think there are gamers, like me, who haven't paid money to Blizzard in a while because I don't subscribe to anything Blizzard, but I already own a bunch of games.

What should I do?

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