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Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

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Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#11

Post by dvt »

munk-a wrote: post #7
dvt wrote: post #2

> “Doing business in China, it’s been easier to ignore the authoritarianism of the government because they were asking us to do things like remove a skeleton [from a game],” he said. It looks like China learned nothing from the USSR (or from their own Great Leap Forward, for that matter). Escalation is not going to go their way. Hawkish members of the CCP are going to blow the whole thing up. This is much bigger than…

I don't think it's Western companies as much as Western society putting pressure on all companies in general - and that'll bump up really hard against neo-liberalism and especially the libretarian segments of society. Ideally we'll see political support shifting away from neo-liberalism and toward more pro-democracy ideologies.

Theoretically, at least, I think that the two are inextricably linked. I don't think you can have neo-liberalism (an actually free free market) unless your markets live in a democratic law-abiding state.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#12

Post by dvt »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #9
dvt wrote: post #2

> “Doing business in China, it’s been easier to ignore the authoritarianism of the government because they were asking us to do things like remove a skeleton [from a game],” he said. It looks like China learned nothing from the USSR (or from their own Great Leap Forward, for that matter). Escalation is not going to go their way. Hawkish members of the CCP are going to blow the whole thing up. This is much bigger than…

Wall Street has nothing to do with it. https://www.pcgamer.com/every-game-company-that-tencent-has-...

I'm not sure if I agree. "Expansion in Chinese markets" seems to be a staple of quarterly earnings reports.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#13

Post by ep103 »

dvt wrote: post #11
munk-a wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's Western companies as much as Western society putting pressure on all companies in general - and that'll bump up really hard against neo-liberalism and especially the libretarian segments of society. Ideally we'll see political support shifting away from neo-liberalism and toward more pro-democracy ideologies.

Theoretically, at least, I think that the two are inextricably linked. I don't think you can have neo-liberalism (an actually free free market) unless your markets live in a democratic law-abiding state.

true, but I don't think you can have neo-liberalism, and do anything other than move away from a democratic law-abiding state, and towards a more authoritarian most-state-capitalist society

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#14

Post by jrockway »

The Internet's reaction to this has warmed my heart a little. Overwatch and Hearthstone are among my favorite computer games. I've certainly played more Overwatch than any other game. I have made real-world and online friends in Overwatch. I met my girlfriend in Overwatch.

It made me sad to have to throw all that away yesterday.

But the conversations we're having as a result of this is great. The mainstream media is talking about it. Congress is talking about it. We're going to have to ask ourselves: can we really let China have this much influence? Is it really worth it? (Remember: this is what Europe is asking about Silicon Valley with things like GDPR, and it's working out quite well for them.)

Banning someone from Hearthstone GM doesn't matter. But we are heading down a path where we decide what our values are, and they're looking pretty good.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#15

Post by ddtaylor »

As much as I want to think change will happen, it's much more likely this will be a few weeks of PR and ultimately nothing will change.

For something to change people have to vote with their wallets. In this context that means cancelling subscriptions or dropping games they are already playing in favor for ones by competitors with better integrity, and I don't see that happening.

Diablo players could go to Path of Exile, its closest competitor, but that game is massively invested into China as well and partially owned by Tencent.

Warcraft RTS players represent a small market right now with almost no microtransactions or ongoing revenue.

WoW players have alternatives, but not many I am aware of that aren't heavily Chinese based as the MMORPG category is dominated by Chinese companies like Perfect World.

Starcraft players don't have a lot of alternatives as SC has dominated the esports and highly polished RTS category for over 5 years with the same game. The closest competitor would be Age of Empires or Warhammer, I'm not sure how much influence China has over them, but they are different types of RTS games.

Heroes of the Storm players can go to Dota or LoL. LoL being owned by China and Dota being owned by Valve with strong Chinese market involvement.

More alternatives are needed IMO.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#16

Post by munk-a »

dvt wrote: post #11
munk-a wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's Western companies as much as Western society putting pressure on all companies in general - and that'll bump up really hard against neo-liberalism and especially the libretarian segments of society. Ideally we'll see political support shifting away from neo-liberalism and toward more pro-democracy ideologies.

Theoretically, at least, I think that the two are inextricably linked. I don't think you can have neo-liberalism (an actually free free market) unless your markets live in a democratic law-abiding state.

The golden goose of neo-liberalism has always been local free-democracy and political protections while offshoring the uglier parts of the free-market economy to regions where the local political system can't resist the pressures being imposed by corporations. Within the west the idea is that corporations (mostly) play nice and respect democracy while exploiting that abroad - I think that may have lasted for a month or so and then folks realized they could double dip and have been eroding political institution for the benefit of corporations both locally and abroad.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#17

Post by baq »

wffurr wrote: post #6
finnjohnsen2 wrote: post #3

I just got some faith back in Blizzard. It was lost.

I don't know why "a small group of Activision Blizzard employees" would do anything to change your "faith" in the company as a whole. Wake me up when their C-suite staff and board of directors "walk out" or make a meaningful public statement.

from the looks of it (they shut down their whole subreddit for a while) their pants are a shade of brown right now. they're in a damned-if-you-do damned-if-you-don't situation and that's what the one of the comments here is alluding to by saying that they have to pick a side. there isn't going back to business as usual after this now, though they'll sure try before Chinese new years. we'll see how the bigger picture will look like in a couple of weeks.

google was there a few years ago, i can't imagine their COs aren't grateful for dodging the bullet right now.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#19

Post by mantap »

If Hong Kong becomes a Palestine-style cause celebre it will be bad for China.

China is trapped. They are stuck with this democratic appendix attached to a communist body. China can't keep Hong Kong under a democratic system as they have zero understanding of democracy. But if they try to repress it they risk endangering China's relationships with the rest of the world. They made a mistake thinking they could transform a democratic territory into a communist one without any consequences.

Re: Blizzard Employees Staged a Walkout to Protest Banned Pro-Hong Kong Gamer

#20

Post by lambdasquirrel »

This is probably not going to be a popular opinion here, but I wonder if any folks have considered what it looks like on the China side? Specifically, you are in China, and the HK protestors want what to happen to China?

You have HK protesters waving American and British flags. These are the countries that have started wars all over, in the last 70 years since the end of WWII, ostensibly to promote democracy, and everywhere this happens there is chaos and destruction.

Add to that, China's cultural history of being invaded and exploited by various foreigners whenever it was weak or divided, and what happened to Russia in the 90s after democracy and neo-liberal capitalism were introduced, and you don't really have a good story here.

So, imagine then, you are in China, and the HK protestors sound like they want what for China?

The popular notion is that China would become a place friendly to Western ideals if it became successful. But even here, the West – and in particular, the US/UK – doesn't "get" China. Whatever is said here, China will bypass the US/UK, for practical purposes. But in any case, it is not as if they are representative of the West as a whole, nor can they claim to have a better human rights record – or equality record – or a fairer society.

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