Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. They got rid of RMS based on slander and libel. They are no long relevant to Free Software.
and truth and past actions.
Please just stop with the libel. Either present evidence or stop defaming people.
No Radical Changes in GNU Project
81–90 of 155 posts
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer users The notion that empowered means shielded from opinions you might disagree with seems odd.
Contrast that with Ellen Degeneres responding to people dismayed that she sat next to George W. Bush during a game (warning, video in the tweet): https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1181395164499070976 Basically, it's okay to be friends with people we disagree with (and really, we ought to).
There is a very great difference between a top-tier celebrity "palling around" with a former president, and someone in an asymmetrical, basically broadcast and image-setting position of power spreading messages that the majority of participants don't support. It is at the very least a huge and unnecessary distraction from the goals of the organization.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Contrast that with Ellen Degeneres responding to people dismayed that she sat next to George W. Bush during a game (warning, video in the tweet): https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1181395164499070976 Basically, it's okay to be friends with people we disagree with (and really, we ought to).
We all have friends we disagree with, but Ellen deserves catching shit for palling around with a guy who started a war that killed nearly 5 thousand American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of civilians for absolutely nothing.
Americans started a war that killed nearly 5 thousand American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of civilians for absolutely nothing. We're all pretty much complicit. If there's any smaller group to be mad at, I'd say it's anybody who didn't oppose that course, but more likely, the U.S. military complex.
Ironically, she didn't catch flack for George being president of the Iraqi war, she caught flack for George's stance on LGBT issues when he was president.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's correct but it's also worth noting that he did not resign, he was resigned.
I'm confused; I'm pretty sure resigning is an act done by the individual, at least supposedly voluntarily, and a quick dictionary check seems to bear that out. Are we just using this as a euphemism, or is there another definition that I needed to learn?
Please stop being obtuse. You know very well that people are 'asked to resign' instead of 'fired'.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a complicated question, but I think the real decline of true free software commons was probably around the time cloud services proved so valuable. Cloud provides huge leverage to some end-users for getting to the goal of doing the thing they want to do with the software, and it utterly side-steps the Four Freedoms via the simple expedient of "You don't own the hardware the software runs on." GNU hasn't had an an…
Cloud services are actually still very fragile and vulnerable to being replaced. (Granted, it will be annoying and painful to find new ways to do things like search the web, manage files/emails, or stream videos, but I think those can all be solved from the technical side.) About the time the proprietary OS was finally declared dead, new competitors arose with convenient, cheap solutions that made money exactly becau…
The significant difference between free vs. proprietary OS and free vs. proprietary cloud are around responsibility and cost.
A person can hack away on a free version of an OS for cost of labor and electricity, and making a mistake on one's personal OS build tends to have a "blast radius" limited to the individual user (or perhaps an enterprise relying on whatever software that OS was running).
Running a free (as in speech) cloud service? Much trickier as one deals with cost to run the servers on behalf of other people and administrative costs of users of one's cloud offering abusing one's resources. It shifts responsibility and cost models in a way that doesn't map cleanly to pre-cloud models.
I'm not sure I disagree with you, but I can't visualize the model of replacement that would actually work (everything I've seen so far has significant gaps in security, reliability, and division-of-responsibility in the design itself).
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mailing lists are still the best async method for discussing meta issues with regards to a project, when the people who work on it span the globe. Basically you post to the list if you have a meta issue and then everyone replies. It can get pretty tough to follow if you're using email, but most of these had (still have?) mail news gateways, so you could use a threaded Usenet reader to keep track of all the forks in t…
Many email applications can be set to a threaded view to be able to see who replied what to which message: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/message-threading-thund...
This is a good point. I've been using gmail for so long I forgot that there are better MUAs out there.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#87Hard to read, but we definitely need to make sure the GNU project stays in the right hands.
It definitely needs to removed from the FSF. They have shown themselves to be unable to stand up to the mob. What will the next mob call for?
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
This whole thing started with a pedantic e-mail and a blogger that got offended and decided to slander RMS. The media then lied about RMS defending a pedophile. And now 'SnarkAsh is implying that RMS was harassing people by exposing his manhood. This is why fighting the cancel mob is so important. Lies accumulate.
> The media then lied about RMS defending a pedophile. Source? I saw an article by John Gruber[0] that retracted some specific allegations about him, saying that for these specific allegations RMS was being conflated with ESR, another known sexual predator who has some fame in the early world of FOSS.I saw nothing lying about him being a pedophile. That came a leaked email to the MIT CSAIL mailing list (which had bee…
> Source?
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-sci...
https://www.thedailybeast.com/famed-mit-computer-scientist-r...
Versus what he actually said. The original e-mails are easily available, they've even been quoted in Salem G.'s blog post.
> for these specific allegations RMS was being conflated with ESR, another known sexual predator who has some fame in the early world of FOSS
I hope your phrasing here is accidental, because it could be read as alleging that RMS is a "known sexual predator". I'm pretty sure some people will read it that way and run with it.
> I saw nothing lying about him being a pedophile.
Me neither. Him defending a pedophile (Epstein) was a lie news outlets run with. Him believing at some point in the past pedophilia may be harmless when both sides are willing is true, because he wrote exactly that years ago (recently retracted, whether because of actual change of mind or damage control is besides the point).
> The man's a known pedophile sympathizer, and clearly based on the dates published he doesn't intend to retract any of his own articles proving such any time soon.
Now that is, from what I can tell, factually incorrect. He only wrote in the past that he think the popular opinion on pedophilia is wrong due to issues of bias.
EDIT: You actually quoted the exact statement. Re-read it carefully.
> Seriously, click that [1] link and try to say he's not a pedophile sympathizer…
I clicked that and browsed the results and all I saw in the first couple was:
1) that he believes accusing an underage person who shot nude photos of herself, with no indication of abuse or coercion, of "self-abuse", is bullshit, and
2) that he believes "child pornography" is routinely used as an excuse to justify deploying technologies for Internet censorship, which then can and are being extended to cover more and more material - this being an issue of freedom
Both views are very far from being "pedophile sympathizer"; in particular 2) is what I think is a view shared by most HNers too.
I'm going to assume you're quick to jump to conclusions, but be wary that stuff like this can be misconstrued to further spread falsehoods.
EDIT:
> Also, to be clear, the Vice article that you are thinking of[3] that said he defended a pedophile has an excerpt straight from the CSAIL mailing list that's been confirmed by multiple others.
Yes. Vice article misquotes RMS both in the headline and in the article proper, and I'm having a hard time browsing their broken PDF widget so I'll refer you to the original post that started the whole mess:
https://medium.com/@selamjie/remove-richard-stallman-fec6ec2...
C-f "willing" to find the actual words Stallman used.
EDIT: And where in previous comment I said it started with a blogger that decided to slander RMS, I meant Salem G. and the post I linked to above, not Mr Gruber, who only conveniently managed to pour gasoline into the fire by confusing ESR with RMS.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a list of people against RMS.
Not at all. I'm one of the people who signed it.
I think it's clear from the context in what sense you are against RMS. You don't want RMS to continue GNU project leader and representative. RMS wants to continue. You are against RMS.
Re: No Radical Changes in GNU Project
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll quote the page since maybe you had trouble reading it: https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-pr... > Yet, we must also acknowledge that Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer users. GNU is not fulfilling its mission when the behavior of its leader alienates a large part of those we want to reach out to. > We believe t…
I signed it. I'm not against RMS, I just don't think he should lead GNU. I think the GNU Advisory Committee is better suited to lead things. I believe both the FSF board and the GAC need term limits and I hope they implement them.
> I'm not against RMS,
Go read again all the attacks against RMS you've been spouting along the last weeks, then come back and say that again with a straight face.
Unbelievable...