Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 412 posts

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#101

Post by neuroticfish »

greggman2 wrote: post #78

I'm mixed on this. I'm 100% for Chung “Blitzchung” Ng Wai to express his support for Hong Kong. I'm not so sure it's okay for him to do it on Blizzard's show/event. 27 years ago Sinead O'Connor ripped up a picture of the Pope on Saturday Night Live when it was broadcast live. She's was arguably right to critize the Pope but was she right to do it from Saturday Night Live's Live broadcast? IIRC because of that inciden…

>I'm not so sure it's okay for him to do it on Blizzard's show/event.

>She's was arguably right to critize the Pope but was she right to do it from Saturday Night Live's Live broadcast?

>I also believe I want US businesses to all stick up for freedom of expression and not sell out to China.

Well this is what happens when our culture is so insistent on upholding capitalism as a virtue. When our best platforms for speaking up are businesses, it's only fair for us to use them like we would any other service that we're paying for (whether directly or through our taxes that fund their allowances, or through our suffering of their practices). Why do people only come to the defense of corporations when the "invisible hand of the market" is punching up?

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#102

Post by jknoepfler »

intopieces wrote: post #38
falcolas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is targeting individual speech, sanctions and embargos target governments and governmental policy. There's a bit of a difference there. That said, I think that China's efforts - by using companies as their proxies - are being much more effective.

>are being much more effective Absolutely. They’re beating us at our own game and revealing that American values were never freedom and democracy - those are just ways we think are good to make money. If a better system comes along we’re the first to jump on it.

This is laughably false. The press in the United States is and remains free to publish (virtually) whatever it wants about federal, state, and local government. We're free even to suggest that the electoral college is a terrible way to implement democratic election of representatives, to suggest that the current voting system undermines the legitimacy of the government, to propose and debate alternatives in the open air, to stage protests at the capitol if we care to.

What in the heck are you talking about? No one is jumping ship on these values anytime soon.

The actions of corporations trying to make money in countries that don't share those values are subject to open criticism in the press and wherever one cares to air them. If you want to punish companies that seem to be undermining those values (such as Activision/Blizzard in this case), you remain free to do that.

The backlash against Blizzard is an example of that happening.

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#103

Post by celticmusic »

michannne wrote: post #92
celticmusic wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poster was asked to give an example of free speech being quieted, and gave an example of exactly that.

Damore was not quieted though. He was punished, but not quieted, as a matter of fact the controversy surrounding his termination bolstered his audience even further, and from the get go, he was never restricted on what he could or could not say by anyone.

And blizzard/China didn't "quiet" either, they just "punished".

Because apparently it's not quieting if you've punished someone for saying something.

and now let me go grab my eyeballs off the floor because they just rolled out of my head.

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#104

Post by RangerScience »

dekhn wrote: post #33
Knufen wrote: post #5

It is scary to see how much more China and the CCP can get away with, I'm looking forward to seeing where it will all end up. Probably not in a good place. Money talks, morals? Not so much.

Right now the leadership in China is terrified! They've been able to get away with a lot, basically using their economic power to get other countries to look the other way with regards to their behavior (suppressing their people, stealing IP, bullying smaller nations). but the moment they got called on it and people started moving their operations to other countries (previously considered "impossible"), they saw the…

I'm interested in your opinion. Sources?

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#105

Post by malloreon »

dak1 wrote: post #50

The CCP can move quickly and decisively to ban access to the world's 2nd largest market, and it uses that power to chill speech and force governments and companies to take actions it wants that are antithetical to a free society. Small nations and individual companies cannot stand up to this coercion individually, and free, market economies lack the organization to respond in a cohesive way. The optimistic belief tha…

the only freedom we value more than money is the freedom to make money.

Blizzard, the NBA, all of these organizations know this and will find a way to make it right that doesn't turn off the money.

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#106

Post by coldcode »

School-Cotton wrote: post #7
coralreef wrote: post #6

Propose that a suspended player is a US citizen. This feels unconstitutional / illegal, as Blizzard has taken away the player's ability to earn a living based in their political views. The guise of suspension under the violation of "disparagement" feels weak. I'd be interested in seeing how a lawsuit plays out.

There is no law or constitutional provision in the US that says you can’t refuse to work with someone for their political views.

In this case was there a contract between the player and Blizzard? Did this violate that contract?

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#107

Post by marmada »

macspoofing wrote: post #10

I don't think it should be an international incident. The reality is that corporations shouldn't be espousing political viewpoints, and nobody should care what their opinion is on controversial policies. They make and sell products and that's all they should stick too. Why should Blizzard get in the middle of what's happening between China and Hong Kong? And to be clear, it isn't just Chinese government versus Hong K…

Why should corporations have to remain politically neutral? If a corporation can support a social justice cause without hurting its bottom line, that's good for both the corporation and the cause it is supporting.

I would also argue that corporations are subject to moral constraints, and sometimes, they should do the right thing--even if it hurts their bottom line.

Also forcing political neutrality hurts those who are oppressed. The dominant force will never need to protest or introduce politics into a surprising area because the dominant force has no need to protest. Only those who suffer need to protest and inconvenience the majority in order to make their plight known (see civil rights movement amongst other things).

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#108

Post by AFascistWorld »

intopieces wrote: post #29
yellow_lead wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noticing this a lot more recently with the NBA controversy too.

What is so weird about the NBA controversy is that it stems from a tweet. Twitter is banned in China. So how could it have “hurt the Chinese people’s feelings”?

In the game of pledging allegiance, any resemblance of disloyalty will be crucified.

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#109

Post by RangerScience »

coralreef wrote: post #6

Propose that a suspended player is a US citizen. This feels unconstitutional / illegal, as Blizzard has taken away the player's ability to earn a living based in their political views. The guise of suspension under the violation of "disparagement" feels weak. I'd be interested in seeing how a lawsuit plays out.

Oh damn, that'd be interesting. And since Blizzard is a California company (well, based here?) that might work....

(since such laws are a state thing, not a US thing)

Re: Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident

#110

Post by nordsieck »

jackcodes wrote: post #97
dak1 wrote: post #50

The CCP can move quickly and decisively to ban access to the world's 2nd largest market, and it uses that power to chill speech and force governments and companies to take actions it wants that are antithetical to a free society. Small nations and individual companies cannot stand up to this coercion individually, and free, market economies lack the organization to respond in a cohesive way. The optimistic belief tha…

Do you think a union would hold any power, almost like an ‘accredited travel agent’? Sign up and show you won’t bend you initial ethics to suit China.

> Do you think a union would hold any power

Power over whom?

China? No.

US Companies? It depends on the context: how damaging would a strike be, and how much of the important people can you get to join?

In the context of pro gaming, I have serious doubts that any union is viable outside games with a franchise model. There are just too many hungry people and too few spots at the top to ever have a meaningful strike.

Even with a franchise, the result of a Union forming may just be the dissolving of the franchise model (or the failure of the game as an esport) rather than the Union achieving political power.

Post reply on HN