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macOS 10.15 Vista

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Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#241

Post by littlecranky67 »

I didn't come close the provided screenshot in the article, but I was also alienated by the number of popups & permission requests I got after upgrading to Catalina.

I really see what Apple is trying to do here - I do not want a system as in Windows, where my Game Launcher X scans my hard drive for other game launchers, and extracts contacts & game list just to send it to Game Launcher X manufacturers servers for "analytics" or "enhancing my user experience". (this is just an unconfirmed rumour but nonetheless, see [0])

Apps have become far more than just programs and tools we use to solve a problem, they have become marketing channels and data-gatherer for the companys creating them. The time we can install a program from a trustworthy source and give it full access to OS APIs and the Filesystem are gone.

I do not have a better technical solution as what Apple shipped, but I really am glad that I can prevent Applications from scanning through my Downloads folder or settings folders of other applications.

[0]: https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-steam-data-reddit/

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#242

Post by lovelyviking »

Since SL I feel that Apple gets more and more control over Apps, rather then me over my own system.

Being for years able to advocate that apple approach, with all problems, was at least superior in user interface feel and experience. Now I have more and more trouble finding real arguments.

I can't stand popups, they appear in the middle of what you do. They interrupt your flow. If you ask me they should not exist in a good software.Certainly I was not missing a lot of dialogs for security. I need one list in one place with permissions/apps where I can tune what is allowed and what is not for each app, including(!) Apple Apps and where they connect.

It's getting worse and worse in many aspects. I feel less and less in control about what system does.

I can't track what connects, where, why and which information is sent, for instance by Calendar, when I turned off all related to iCloud, I do not expect it to connect anywhere, yet it does.

Also some "geod" deamon connects every time I go online even though I disabled everything possible through GUI related to iCloud and even time sync ... So why it connects I have no idea, but if I forbid it in a router, then guess what? Internet doesn't work completely. Safari won't load anything.

We talk about privacy and security? How about fixing those behaviours and giving me control back? How is catalina with that? So we have many dialogs, distracting us from what are real privacy concerns?

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#243

Post by yabadabadoes »

als0 wrote: post #237
yabadabadoes wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another thing I wish they would do is provide an infallible way to verify system password request dialogs. You are requesting trusted path ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_path ) for windows the ctrl-alt-delete sequence is apparently used to implement their trusted path, so it should have been designed to foreground its own active windows, minimize non trusted windows, or similar.

In my experience, Trusted path and Trusted UI tend to fail due to significant UX challenges. It tends to be quirky and require user training.

In my experience, this could be said for virtually every security feature, particularly when new to users. But I still find it worthwhile to fully/correctly implement security features even if they might not be correctly used. Many correct security features have gradually become commonly understood in most communities to everyone's benefit, while most short cuts have eventually caused major problems that are made doubly bad by reputable firms having invested in training users to accept a solution that could only be implemented in snake oil.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#244

Post by w0utert »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #71
dpkonofa wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You expect applications to have access to your desktop? You should only ever expect the user to have access to the desktop and, even then, the only apps that would ever prompt for access to the desktop are those that aren't updated for High Sierra and above. On the latest versions of macOS, the Desktop folder is shared by iCloud. This is definitely not an instance where security has been lowered nor is this the stand…

> You expect applications to have access to your desktop? Yes! That's what applications do , they read and write files. Most other software is, more likely than not, either a game or a web page. Does every app need to access my desktop specifically? No. But if we're trying to protect "normal users", I don't think most of them have the wherewithal to think through "what exact locations does and doesn't app X need to a…

The typical desktop for most user is a dumping ground for whatever it is they are currently working on. Or in some cases more or less anything they've been working on for the past years. A dumping ground full of potentially sensitive documents, work-in-progress files that are not supposed to leak beyond the computer, etc.

Do you really think any application on your computer should be allowed to read and write them because "that's what applications do"? 90% of the 'applications' on my computer I didn't even install myself, like uninstallers, updaters, helper applications, background services, whatever. These have no business looking at files in my Desktop folder. And particularly not if its on iCloud and shared with other devices like my phone.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#245

Post by vbezhenar »

hkai wrote: post #85
iamleppert wrote: post #80

This isn’t a “step forward in user privacy” or whatever the others here are saying. It’s a mess and very poorly executed UX. Users will tend to feel overwhelmed and just click through modals when they are presented in this way. Displaying stacks of modals is an anti-pattern. The right thing to do would have been to create a migration UX that allows quick review and audit of application permissions, presented in a tab…

But that's a one time thing. When you're doing an OS upgrade, I guess you're expecting some extra work. Your also have to reinstall xcode, update other apps etc.

That's why I never upgrade a system. I'm always reinstalling it from scratch. First: I'm going happy path and not encountering any migration issues, which might be buried deep below. Second: I'm getting rid of unused apps and files. Third: I'm testing my backups and ensuring that things are good. Fourth: I just love to see pristine clean system.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#246

Post by pjmlp »

intarga wrote: post #223
pjmlp wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until Linux-on-the-desktop gives me the GUI workflow, a full OS stack of the likes of macOS, Windows, Android, it is going to be left as a travel OS for my tiny surviving Asus netbook. For a couple of years I believed on the dream, nowadays I rather invest my time elsewhere.

Although I'm not personally a fan of it, I don't see what Gnome is lacking that you can get on those OSs you listed

GNOME, like KDE, still fail short of the full stack developer experience across all distributions, they focus mainly on the UI layer alone.

Something like macOS Frameworks, Android Frameworks, .NET/UWP.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/

https://developer.android.com/guide/platform

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/desktop/choose...

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#247

Post by cotelletta »

Everyone should be spamming the hell out of Apple's feedback form if they:

- have 32-bit apps or games that won't be updated

- don't think there is anything worthwhile to upgrade for

- don't need mismatched marzipan iOS toys on their desktop

- don't have an iPhone or iPad and just want a computer that's a computer

etc.

This reeks of "we checked our stats and the normies don't care", a huge mistake for a platform once loved by developers.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#248

Post by Crinus »

microtonal wrote: post #155
wayneftw wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should read and write whatever files it needs to without bothering me for every little thing. For instance, supposing they want to show you a welcome screen with all of your documents from your Documents folder (or anywhere else) - I don't want some asinine popup asking me for permission. Word is a well-known application. I installed it. I trust it and the corporation that wrote it. That's enough for me. The alleg…

For instance, supposing they want to show you a welcome screen with all of your documents from your Documents folder (or anywhere else) - I don't want some asinine popup asking me for permission. Word is a well-known application. I installed it. I trust it and the corporation that wrote it. That's enough for me. But this is not how it works. Word from the App Store is sandboxed. If you open a document in Word, this i…

> People said the same thing ten years ago and yet here we are, macOS is still an OS for 'general purpose computing'.

Well, the "slow" part can be slower than ten years. It might just still not be there, but compared to how macOS was 10 years ago, it does have more iOS-like restrictions nowadays even if it isn't full-on iOS.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#249

Post by UIZealot »

coldtea wrote: post #234
ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

> Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in What exactly is the evidence behind this? They have been adding several huge components/APIs/tools that they have working for macOS (Metal, APFS, Swift, CoreML, etc), they have had added the Mac App Store, they have tons of under the hood improvements (e.g. memory compression), and so on. What exactly did you e…

> >Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in > What exactly is the evidence behind this?

I agree neglect is probably not the right word. I like the term Marco Arment uses on his ATP podcast: drive-by updates.

> They have been adding several huge components/APIs/tools that they have working for macOS (Metal, APFS, Swift, CoreML, etc),

These all seem to have been developed for iOS first and macOS second.

> they have tons of under the hood improvements (e.g. memory compression), and so on.

Personally I experienced rage-inducing multi-second freezes after updating to Sierra, disabling memory compression solved the problem.

> What exactly did you expect to see, or was seeing before "Snow Leopard"?

Stability, usability, and polish.

I don't think it's controversial to say that all of these have taken a precipitous fall since Snow Leopard.

There are probably many reasons for this. It seems to me the biggest culprit is the yearly release schedule.

They've shown themselves utterly incapable of releasing a quality update each year. The question is, why are they keeping it up? To sync up with iOS releases roughly maybe?

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#250

Post by keyle »

fbnlsr wrote: post #148
keyle wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should have their software designing license revoked. Dang it, I never filed for one. Hey Clippy, where do I get one of those... > Hi I'm Clippy! It looks like you're trying to make a joke. Do you need some assistance? Clippy would like permission to invade your screen after you summoned him. /s

Unrelated, are you keyle from the old demoscene days? If so nice to see you here, we haven't talked in 15 years. - ks

hey fabian :)
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