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How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

melmagazine.com

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Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This quote is from Henry George, who advocated for Georgism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

It appears that the quote is about George, not by George. "George advocated for Georgism" is a tautology :-)

Most people don't advocate for "themselves-ism" -> not a tautology

Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#62
post #40

At least in California, especially in Los Angeles, it's really important to factor in that parking lots -- even on land worth $10M+ -- often pay property taxes as little as $100-$1000 a year (thanks to Prop 13). You buy a parking lot, sit on it as the value of land increases (paying effectively 0% in taxes), then you eventually sell, paying only a capital gains tax (much lower than income). I only bring up California…

> parking lots -- even on land worth $10M+ -- often pay property taxes as little as $100-$1000 a year (thanks to Prop 13). Commercial property is also exempt under Prop 13?! What a screwed up system. I kind of understand if it applies to primary residences. I think it's ridiculous it also applies to commercial property as well.

It's insane. And, yes, it does. Same narrative to justify it.

We can't increase taxes on poor old grandpa's deli. He'll never be able to compete with all the other delis that also have to pay rising taxes. Think of poor grandpa!

Meanwhile, you've got landlords owning those shitty 6-unit dingbat apartments they built in the 70s for $100k, paying taxes of $1k per year, charging rents or $3k/month for each unit. All the while, they're collecting another $1k or so in land value increases per month, that will be taxed at a lower capital gains rate -- of which the state will see almost nothing. AND it's the whole reason no one ever sells those buildings to be redeveloped. They make so much money, since they pay no taxes, that there's no better investment in the world. Why would anyone ever sell one? Even at $10M, you'd still be crazy to sell it. It'll be worth $11M next year, and you get all that tax-free profit.

Totally legally, and totally cool.

Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#63
post #40

At least in California, especially in Los Angeles, it's really important to factor in that parking lots -- even on land worth $10M+ -- often pay property taxes as little as $100-$1000 a year (thanks to Prop 13). You buy a parking lot, sit on it as the value of land increases (paying effectively 0% in taxes), then you eventually sell, paying only a capital gains tax (much lower than income). I only bring up California…

> parking lots -- even on land worth $10M+ -- often pay property taxes as little as $100-$1000 a year (thanks to Prop 13). Commercial property is also exempt under Prop 13?! What a screwed up system. I kind of understand if it applies to primary residences. I think it's ridiculous it also applies to commercial property as well.

I don't get property taxes. Why make people pay taxes on land they already paid a bunch of money for?

Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#64
post #12

I'll never understand how articles like this always talk about Uber and never about public transportation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrain_JFK#Ridership >The AirTrain's ridership has risen each year since then. In 2017, there were 7,655,901 passengers who paid to travel between JFK Airport and either Howard Beach or Jamaica. This represents a 292% increase over 2004, the first full year of operation, when 2,62…

It seems that to Americans, public transport is unthinkable and the mere suggestion that it could be a solution is met with shock and horror since the only public transport they have ever known is the American kind with useless timetables and primarily used as homeless housing.

Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#65
> Bear in mind, though, an ideal lot wouldn’t be full of only office workers. They’re parked there all day! Ideally you get shoppers, who turn over their parking spot every hour or two.

I wonder how much this actually matters? Money is money, whether it's coming from one person parked for 8 hours or four people each parked for 2 hours.

Sure, most lots will charge a somewhat lower rate for a longer period of time (i.e. the per-hour is less than three per-20-minutes, the per-four-hours is less than four per-hours, etc.), but if lots really do prefer short-duration parkers over longer-duration parkers, then it'd make sense for them to just not incentivize that behavior and charge a flat rate (or even invert it), no?

Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#66

At least in California, especially in Los Angeles, it's really important to factor in that parking lots -- even on land worth $10M+ -- often pay property taxes as little as $100-$1000 a year (thanks to Prop 13). You buy a parking lot, sit on it as the value of land increases (paying effectively 0% in taxes), then you eventually sell, paying only a capital gains tax (much lower than income). I only bring up California…

Exactly. Taxing property encourages speculation and under-development. Showing an alternative, Pennsylvania has several towns and cities with a split-rate tax, which means that there's a higher tax on the assessed land value than on the assessed value of the property. Taking this to an extreme, you can tax only the land value, not the property, providing a very strong incentive to make the best use of desirable land.…

> And not just that, but typical property taxes provide a disincentive to even improve your own property, since you'll pay more tax. They encourage blight.

A good old wealth tax on everything would fix that.

Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#67

At least in California, especially in Los Angeles, it's really important to factor in that parking lots -- even on land worth $10M+ -- often pay property taxes as little as $100-$1000 a year (thanks to Prop 13). You buy a parking lot, sit on it as the value of land increases (paying effectively 0% in taxes), then you eventually sell, paying only a capital gains tax (much lower than income). I only bring up California…

> It's not poor old ladies living in them that don't want to leave the neighborhood they lived their whole lives in, but gentrified under their feet into some urban monster. It's business people arbitraging tax laws.

And sometimes it's both: the poor old ladies who want to hang onto it for their descendants to inherit, ostensibly because it was the "family home" but more rationally/coldly because it could turn a tidy profit for said descendants.

Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#68
post #12

I'll never understand how articles like this always talk about Uber and never about public transportation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrain_JFK#Ridership >The AirTrain's ridership has risen each year since then. In 2017, there were 7,655,901 passengers who paid to travel between JFK Airport and either Howard Beach or Jamaica. This represents a 292% increase over 2004, the first full year of operation, when 2,62…

The AirTrain is only eight miles long, cost $1.9 billion to build, and is relevant only to those going to or from JFK. Public transport, especially the AirTrain, is great but I think such advocacy would be well served by discussing the costs as well.

I think it would only be fair to put the cost of constructing roads next to that number since those are mindblowingly high as well. The first result I saw was that a 6 lane highway costs about $7-11 million per mile and that doesn't count the cost of all the cars that use it where as the first stat would count the train. I also assume that steel tracks last a lot longer than road surface which has to be rebuilt every few years. Also the cost of carbon emissions is often ignored in car price stats.

Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#69
post #14

Self-driving cars will render these obsolete

Is your self-driving car going to take up less space or something?

Rather than pay to park your car you can just have it go get stuck in traffic and slowly crawl around in circles utilizing the free "parking" provided by the roads. Since electric cars do not need to idle they should be able to roll around slowly fairly efficiently.

As horrific as that idea sounds you just know that will be the reality until there is a law against it.

Re: How Much Money Do Parking Lots Make?

#70

Self-driving cars will render these obsolete

I don't think it will. The parking ain't the point; it's just a bit of side cash to make off the lot to cover the property taxes until eventual resale. It'll probably find other uses (e.g. food trucks).

Even if it was the point, stick a charger on every space and BAM! now you've got a reason to let your electric self-driving car park there instead of wasting battery driving all the way back home only to drive all the way back to you and home again later.

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