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U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#151

Post by thereare5lights »

mattnewton wrote: post #142
trhway wrote: post #103

if US wants to put pressure on and punish China, then instead of shooting itself in the foot and everywhere else with tariffs US could have just offered say 10K Green Cards (each coming with $1M resettlement bonus) to the top China researchers&engineers in any industry in China that US would want to cripple as a punishment. At $1M per such a top head it would be a steal for US, and for China it would be a very painfu…

I love this idea; it plays strongly into American strengths. However, I don't know if China would be more successful in convincing it's top talent to stay with their families, and I have no idea how to sell this idea politically to American voters. The stereotype of Chinese culture is that they tend to be more collectivist, and the stereotype of the general population of American voters would most likely rather spend…

We were basically doing that via universities until the anti-Chinese sentiment shot up drastically in the past few years.

You can't turn the clock back. The anti-Chinese sentiment is very high now in America.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#152

Post by vkou »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #149
vkou wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how you manage to assign blame for the actions of a few drug dealers to an entire country.

There's basically one company making all this fentanyl. We know where it is, we know where the CEO lives. He's walking around free and in the open in China.

You are wrong to blame an entire country for our addiction to fentanyl. The facts are:

1. Fentanyl has legitimate pharmaceutical uses.

2. There are many, many, many legal manufacturers of Fentanyl, across the world, including Bayer, Johnson&Johnson, Meiji Seika Pharma (Japan), and yes, Chinese manufacturers. Some legal fentanyl ends up getting diverted into illegal channels.

3. There are also many, many, many illegal manufacturers of Fentanyl, again, across the world.

4. The reason for why China has had an outsized share of illegal fentanyl production is that for many years, it (and its derivatives and precursors) has not been a controlled substance.

5. Fentanyl is now a controlled substance in China, and it, its precursors, and its derivatives have been controlled substances since May 2019.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#153

Post by bassman9000 »

pesmhey wrote: post #7
saltking112 wrote: post #3

One thing that I really like about the Trump administration is that finally the WH has decided to act against the systemic threat posed by China. Can someone who is well versed in politics shed some light on if this is a trump specific phenonemon or had there been a sea change and the dems are now on board too ?

Obama was manufacturing the pivot to Asia. The TTP would have given a lot of power to corporations to combat China. This presents its own set of problems though. Clinton was adamant that her grandchildren would not be speaking Chinese. China has been acknowledged as a threat since 2008 really, by everyone really, just, sometimes people need a very visual and visceral demonstration of action (no matter how less-optima…

would have given a lot of power to corporations to combat China

How? Apple and the NBA just bent to China's wishes. How would that have worked out?

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#154

Post by killjoywashere »

If you really want the Palantir of the Chinese, check out Novogene. Then ask yourself why they have a CLIA- and CAP-approved lab in Sacramento. Then ask yourself, what shameless, desperate, or just clueless physicians and researchers are allowing their patients' genomes to be sequenced by an asset of the Chinese Communist Party.

https://en.novogene.com/technology/quality-control/lab-certi...

https://www.linkedin.com/company/novogene-corporation

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Novogene-Reviews-E1790104....

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#155

Post by lainga »

chrisjc wrote: post #129
knowledge102 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threat from China has been existent and ignored for the past 30 years, the same 30 years that China rose from 3rd world country to the superpower it is today. The change in attitude began with Trump. He was to first president to bring the threat of China to the mainstream political discourse. Since then, China is so objectively a threat to the U.S. economically, militarily and through their direct actions of mani…

> bipartisian support was easy to flourish once someone actually took an anti-china stance Apart from Yang I haven't heard (partially because I haven't sought it out) any other democratic candidate voice any opinion on this matter. I really fear that if Trump doesn't have a second term, any Democrat will cut bait, sending a very dangerous message to the CCP. edit: Actually, not sure I've heard Yang's stance on this e…

House Democrats have been fairly consistently anti-PRC since 1989. The last (failed) attempt to repeal PNTR was spearheaded by Bernie Sanders in 2005.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#156

Post by killjoywashere »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #123
ABeeSea wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren’t necessarily bad for American workers. American manufacturing is high skill and involves precision equipment and manufacturing. What would have moved to Vietnam would have been more basic textiles and cnc/molding. Not sure why everyone glorifies basic manufacturing work like it’s the pinnacle of American labor.

> Not sure why everyone glorifies basic manufacturing work like it’s the pinnacle of American labor. War requires a lot of basic manufacturing capacity, and geopolitically those aren't good things to lose.

Geopolitically, would it not be better too have a world economy that is to interdependent to support war as a viable path to resolution of differences.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#157

Post by rjzzleep »

stale2002 wrote: post #150
vunie wrote: post #144

So far, china has only retaliated defensively against the us. I wonder what will happen when china decides to go on the offensive the same way the us has and hit were it really hurts? What will happen if they cut off the us entirely and force asian countries to cease trading with it (i.e. using the same strategies used to isolate iran or turkey). Successful military intervention is unlikely since china is a nuclear s…

> What will happen if they cut off the us entirely and force asian countries to cease trading with it What happens when we do it to them? China is powerful, sure. But they aren't more powerful than the western world. We'll win that fight. (Well, by "win" I mean suffer less damages). Western companies are also already pretty cut off from the Chinese market. Cutting them off even more so is unlikely to have as huge if…

I don't think the US can anymore. What Trump did was idiotic. There was a lot of power that world thought the US has, but doesn't seem to have. By issuing all these threats and not being able to follow through with them Trump essentially showed the world that the US isn't as omnipotent as everyone thought it would be.

Subsequently Asias reaction to absolutely do not do any business with Huawei as the US ambassador asked for was answered with "we know China is risky, but you guys don't come without strings attached either"[1][2][3]. Only Europe and places like Taiwan(because of obvious reasons) are blindly followed US foreign policy decisions.

Even UAE, Saudi Arabia and other places have now started to look for alternatives as they consider the US to less likely to follow through with their threats.

If ever SCO(Shanghai Cooperation Organisation[4]) the Chinese answer to NATO becomes more involved in the middle east the US and it's allies will have to worry. And it's happening right now albeit slowly, because the sanctions and my way or the highway isn't really a reliable partner to a lot of people anymore.

EDIT: economically there isn't much more than a complete trade embargo including central bank sanction that has been done with NK or Iran that can be done.

Politically a coup isn't likely to happen. The PRC is hugely popular among its citizens whether we like it or not.

And militarily Clinton humiliating China in 1996 prompted the current military buildup (See Taiwan straight crisis) [5]

It's basically the emperors naked clothes now as the US Navy realizes that their big aircraft carriers are also a big liability in modern conflict as they're basically vulnerable to swarm attacks by cheap junk[6]

[1] https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2019/08/840ce682b432-focu...

[2] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/08/19/business/u-s-ba...

[3] https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/geopolitics/article/3006961/m...

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisat...

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis

[6] https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2019/08/06/with-mounting-q...

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#158

Post by mc32 »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #124
dillondoyle wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also in my opinion TPP critically united other Asian nations. I think Trump admins' abandoning of traditional allies/structures like TPP and ceding soft/hard power across the board for the sake of 'America First' is going to have lasting damage and is thus not putting America First in the long term...

Pan-Asian relations is far more complex than just China and not-China. TPP wouldn't change that.

Yep, also Bernie denounced the TPP. So it’s not an anti-Democrat position, thought it’s an anti-globalist position.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#159

Post by buildzr »

Wow, interesting to see Hikvision on this list, I own several of their cameras (and keep them isolated on a separate VLAN), but once you know them, you see them everywhere, they have a huge hold in the video surveillance market. Wonder if their main Chinese competitor, Dahua will pick up their market share in the US or if there's a more local competitor.

Huawei's HiSilicon fab makes purpose built ICs for these things, I've dumped the firmware for some whitebox ones done by a local tech retailer, but they were still heavily reliant on those ICs. Will be very interesting to see what happens in that market if this persists for long.

Re: U.S. widens trade blacklist to include some of China’s top AI startups

#160

Post by [deleted] »

lainga wrote: post #155
chrisjc wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bipartisian support was easy to flourish once someone actually took an anti-china stance Apart from Yang I haven't heard (partially because I haven't sought it out) any other democratic candidate voice any opinion on this matter. I really fear that if Trump doesn't have a second term, any Democrat will cut bait, sending a very dangerous message to the CCP. edit: Actually, not sure I've heard Yang's stance on this e…

House Democrats have been fairly consistently anti-PRC since 1989. The last (failed) attempt to repeal PNTR was spearheaded by Bernie Sanders in 2005.

[deleted]
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