Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments • Hacker News Board

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#941

Post by gwright » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:10 AM UTC

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #924

Dove wrote: post #904

This is a very specific instance of a much more general problem. A lot of private companies control exclusive access to something with a value that dwarfs what you pay for it. I pay nothing for access to Twitter; if I build a business or a social life on the platform, it becomes something I would pay thousands of dollars to prevent losing. I pay nothing for access to Facebook; the memories they store at this point in…

Mostly playing devil's advocate here: When the Constitution was written, free speech meant literally that, your ability to go to a public space and physically talk. No third party was involved as it is with any telecommunication technology. So the resources consumed in that speech were totally your own. The only way to strictly have that equivalent in the telecommunications realm is for me to own every communication…

It seems pretty strange to me that individuals with the right to free speech and the right to assemble and freely associate would lose those rights if they chose the form of a "corporation" as the manner of assembly and association. So I don't think the problem is that the law treats groups of people as legal entities with substantially similar rights to the individuals.

I would expect that crimes associated with speech (slander, defamation, fraudulent representations, incitement to violence, threats, etc) would be applicable to individuals and to corporations equally.

I would agree that the control that a handful (relative to all corporations) of online companies wield is something quite new (historically speaking) and our laws, regulations, and even legal principles are playing catchup. We may need some original thinking to help us evolve our legal systems to meet the challenge.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#942

Post by golemiprague » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:17 AM UTC

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #924

Dove wrote: post #904

This is a very specific instance of a much more general problem. A lot of private companies control exclusive access to something with a value that dwarfs what you pay for it. I pay nothing for access to Twitter; if I build a business or a social life on the platform, it becomes something I would pay thousands of dollars to prevent losing. I pay nothing for access to Facebook; the memories they store at this point in…

Mostly playing devil's advocate here: When the Constitution was written, free speech meant literally that, your ability to go to a public space and physically talk. No third party was involved as it is with any telecommunication technology. So the resources consumed in that speech were totally your own. The only way to strictly have that equivalent in the telecommunications realm is for me to own every communication…

There were letters already and the constitution was covering also written speech or communication by smoke or flags or horns or whatever other means people used at those days to transfer information.

There is also a difference between carrying your speech, which is something specific like transferring your letter to creating the medium itself, the very concept of postal service. A company can refuse transferring your letter but they can't ban you from using a postal service.

In the case of twitter of facebook, their social network is the medium, there is no other twitter or other companies to transfer messages in the twitter sphere. They can do it in other messages sphere but I'd argue it is not the same, a letter can be sent from one home to another by anyone, a twitter message can only be sent by twitter.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#943

Post by wbl » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:19 AM UTC

netule wrote: post #726

luckylion wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon will not only stop stelling 1984, they will even remote-wipe 1984 from their customer's devices, all you need is a copyright claim. Jokes aside, I believe they would if China was a large enough market for them. They are complying with local laws, and often that means pulling a product world wide, because they don't want to go through the trouble of making sure it's only unavailable in the US. Since Amazon has…

This exact scenario actually happened in 2009: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am... Irony of ironies.

I think GP knew that.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#944

Post by gwright » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:21 AM UTC

simias wrote: post #361

IanSanders wrote: post #262

I agree 100% that we should boycott and sanction, however doubt there will be enough people who will, and enough people who care. And I don't blame most for not caring, there are more things to worry about than we have time available. Maybe 1% of hearthstone players will see your comment. Similarly, there are other entities which need to be sanctioned, which you and me won't find out about as it's outside of our area…

>Which makes me believe we need some kind of trusted "morality authority", which would process information similar to this and make informed decisions who to boycott, how and when. Less informed would be able to make an impact without having to do research (which not everyone would do equally well) Isn't that effectively the government's job in a democracy? They're elected (directly or indirectly) to enact the will o…

Generally agreed upon definitions with respect to political systems/philosophies are a challenge, but I would respectfully disagree with the idea that the government is intended to be a trusted moral authority in a democracy (or a republic).

At least with respect to the US notion of limited governmental powers I think the goal was to keep the government from acquiring to much authority never mind something as all encompassing as "moral authority".

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#945

Post by PavlovsCat » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:23 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #915

PavlovsCat wrote: post #838

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hong kong comments > 10 Just as interesting are all the instances where stories gained dozens of upvotes but very few comments, because they disappeared from the front page within a few hours after rising to the first spot. It's very easy to see even from the outside, if you simply filter for stories that are ranked lower than other stories that have a lower score, are older, and have more comments. Try this on for…

For sure, there are submissions on that topic at every level of points, comments, and front page time. It's that way for all the hottest topics; if we replace Hong Kong with climate change in your query the result is similar: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... The hottest topics are both the most discussed and the most "consistently suppressed", as you put it. That sounds like an oxymoron…

> Because of this scarcity, everyone who feels strongly about a story feels that their story is being unfairly suppressed on HN

Writing something to graph the course of stories over time was just something I did for fun, then I noticed that stuff. And again, I'm talking about stories that are ranked lower (and that can mean much lower, several pages lower) than stories that have a lower score, are older, and have more comments.

This story has over 2300 points and is at #32 after 14 hours, would you say that's normal?

Seeing this for a few months now, I did kinda pull back from other threads, at least from long comments on trivial subjects. I don't feel okay, at all, discussing harmless things while important things that intersect with the responsibility of the tech aren't able to be discussed freely. If you then read that as caring so strongly about China [sic], that doesn't mean I just dreamed all that. Or that I do care so much, for that matter: I just dig into things, swiftly and as thoroughly as I can, I've done this with dozens if not hundreds of subjects, and being German this is right up an alley which is way bigger and way more important than even the CCP, from my perspective.

It's not that other don't seem to get flagged by users, too. But for months, it was like clockwork when it came to the CCP. Whenever I saw something gain traction, I paid attention, and without fail, it sank.

> HN is a site for intellectual curiosity

And new software point releases, neat little CSS tricks, anything to do with money and making money, and so on. Including human rights, and the intersection with tech and/or games.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#946

Post by flukus » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:31 AM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #220

I really don't like how this is made out as "China clamping down on Blizzard", just like it was framed when Ubisoft tried to get a lower age-rating for Rainbow Six Siege and claimed that was what China demanded for their market. Blizzard has been suspending plenty of pro players in plenty of their games for all kinds of questionable, and not so questionable reasons. And because Blizzard is a private company, offering…

> And because Blizzard is a private company, offering a service they maintain, they have the house right, they have the final say about who can partake and who can't.

And most people here were endorsing this right when it came to things they didn't like while I and many others were pointing out that one day this sort of stuff would be applied to things they don't like.

Now that it's being applied to things the majority don't like is there any support for some sort of universal service obligation?

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#947

Post by luckydata » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:31 AM UTC

ummonk wrote: post #936

luckydata wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you agree with the measure. Is that the case?

I do. I don’t want sporting events, conventions, etc. to become platforms for advocacy about controversial politics. I support non-disruptive actions like kneeling at an anthem, but advocacy about a political issue during a post-match interview streamed by the event organizer certainly crosses the line.

Crossing lines is the point of activism, we wouldn't have any of the rights we enjoy (and soon we might lose if we're not careful) in the west if not for people that systematically crossed lines and used high visibility occasions to make a point.

It might be worth checking this out:

https://theundefeated.com/features/mexico-city-olympics-prot...

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#948

Post by hkmaxpro » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:43 AM UTC

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #421

IanSanders wrote: post #262

I agree 100% that we should boycott and sanction, however doubt there will be enough people who will, and enough people who care. And I don't blame most for not caring, there are more things to worry about than we have time available. Maybe 1% of hearthstone players will see your comment. Similarly, there are other entities which need to be sanctioned, which you and me won't find out about as it's outside of our area…

I don't think it needs to be a moral authority, it can just be an index of well defined problems to lists of the top couple actors responsible for those problems. Such an organization need not say that you should boycott anything (i.e. be a moral authority) but instead can say that IF you think that American companies participating in the Chinese censorship machine regarding Hong Kong is bad THEN boycotting companies…

HK protesters are doing exactly that. A list of yellow/blue (pro-democracy/pro-government) merchants and their locations on Google Maps: https://www.restart-hk.com/ShopList.html

If you click on a merchant on the Google Maps, it also shows you why that merchant is marked as such, with links to forum discussions/news about comments made by its owner. This map has 3.5mil views in less than 2 months of existence, in a city with 7.5mil population.

HK protesters are actively boycotting many pro-government merchants because such information is easy to find.

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#949

Post by jaimex2 » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:43 AM UTC

dvdgsng wrote: post #890

Thebroser wrote: post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried deleting my account just now and was prompted with a screen asking for it. "Might" might well be an understatement.

They even want an ID copy when revoking the right to process personal data (GDPR). Screw them. Lets upload pictures of Winnie-the-Pooh instead.

Brilliant!

Re: Blizzard Suspends Professional Hearthstone Player for Hong Kong Comments

#950

Post by rjzzleep » Wed, Oct 09, 2019, 12:50 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #803

rjzzleep wrote: post #157

Have we all forgotten when Mozilla replaced the CTO with a long history of internet freedom work to replace him with a marketing director and the disaster that followed? Are we going to keep trampling on all our freedoms in the name of ... freedom(?) and then blame it all on China? EDIT: I knew some people were going to try to spin it into something it wasn't.

Surely not another flamewar about that. Would you please review the site guidelines, paying special attention to this one? " Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190597 and marked it ve…

If you look carefully the controversial discussion wasn't started by me but by the comment Steltek wrote below my post. I think you do owe me the courtesy of recognizing this and in that case detaching that comment might have been the right course of action instead of throwing threats towards me.

It is relevant in the sense that in the sciences department (FOR NOW) we don't judge scientific discovery or papers by their ethnicity or political opinion, but rather on the basis of their scientific merit. Although this too seems to be quickly fading away, judging from the daily comments I'm seeing on my Facebook stream.