Earlier quoted context omitted.
Relevant XKCD from way back in 2006: https://www.xkcd.com/137/
He has since changed his mind: https://xkcd.com/1357/
These are not contradictory.
US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
71–80 of 121 posts
Re: US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
#72In two words: bite me. there aren't too many things that i'm a raving aboslutist about, but the freedom of political speech is one of them. If my employer attempts to step on my neck for saying things about china that china doesn't like, on my time, and my personal accounts, their next contact from me will be from an ACLU lawyer.
AFAIK, political speech is not protected against employer discrimination.
I'm pretty sure that this is going to get you sued into oblivion:
1. I work for private company X.
2. X tells me to vote for Y, says that Y is awesome, supports Y, donates to Y. (pick any of these)
3. I campaign for and vote for Z.
4. I am fired because i voted for Z.
Any outcome in which X is not crushed into little pieces is so incredibly far off the deep end from what the values of who we are as a country are that it's frankly inconceivable to me. If the free expression of political speech is so crabbed and constrained that the above is ok, or legal, or both, then we're fucked.
Re: US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know there are companies that try to tread lightly especially when they have sizable mainlander ranks and go to pains to try to not offend. And we obviously don’t want to speak to the people at large, but I definitely think we should have no qualms about calling out behavior of the Chinese gov as we do the Russian gov. It’s such a contrast for Russian expats and Chinese expats and how company wide comms go out aski…
Part of the deal is that the Chinese are much more hypersensitive than the Russians. The Chinese seem to have a deep inferiority complex about their country (a couple centuries of being over-run by foreigners can do that to you), and they are responding by aggressively trying to shut down any criticism whatsoever of China. But strong nations don't need to do that. Weak nations do. Russia is actually stronger than Chi…
That's what your brain tells you. Is it reality?
A better explanation: China is much more unstable than Russia, and revolution is a much more dangerous and consequential threat.
Re: US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
What case would you have? We've heard over and over that we have freedom of speech, not freedom from the consequences of our speech. If a corporation wants to exercise their right to stop associating with you, that trumps our right to be employed by them or to use them as a platform - or so we're told. And it's not the US government leaning on them, but a foreign government. Don't see a legal case here, and it's even…
>We've heard over and over that we have freedom of speech, not freedom from the consequences of our speech. Thats some nice doublespeak. By that definition the chinese people have total freedom of speech, just no freedom from the consequences of being disappeared by the CCP!
Old soviet joke(s):
Q: Is it true that there is freedom of speech in the Soviet Union, just like in the USA?
A: In principle, yes. In the USA, you can stand in front of the White House in Washington, DC, and yell, "Down with Reagan!", and you will not be punished. Equally, you can also stand in Red Square in Moscow and yell, "Down with Reagan!", and you will not be punished.
Q: What is the difference between the Constitutions of the US and USSR? Both of them guarantee freedom of speech.
A: Yes, but the Constitution of the USA also guarantees freedom after the speech.
Re: US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
>We've heard over and over that we have freedom of speech, not freedom from the consequences of our speech. Thats some nice doublespeak. By that definition the chinese people have total freedom of speech, just no freedom from the consequences of being disappeared by the CCP!
This has been cited around here more times than I care to count: https://xkcd.com/1357/ "Freedom of Speech" is a Western concept generally traced back to Greece and Rome. Why would you expect China to adopt a similar position when it's not part of their philosophy, history, or culture?
[deleted]
Re: US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're talking about French war and WW 2, then both of those wars were won by Russians, so those are examples of Russian superiority when we're talking about nation pride. Also I don't think that many Russians thinks that Russia lost Cold War. It was internal rebellion and has nothing to do with US. Last time Russia lost was Mongol invasion but it was so long ago.
Ok, but then China won against Japan in WWII and won against the nationalists and also defeated the Manchurians... although they had a draw against the Vietnamese... but then there is Afghanistan for the USSR
Russia feels they never lost on their own territory. They stopped Napoleon and Hitler. They are sure that they would win any war, and indeed never felt they lost the cold war, at least as Russians.
China however lost multiple time (in history) against "inferior", cruel or "dumb" enemies because of internal unrest. Those lost caused part of their territory to be under the rule of foreigners for multiple years, decades even in some cases.
Nationalism worked great for liberalism in the 18th century, but now it seems it became a tool for any government.
Re: US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
#77They can bite me as well. This a foreign nation exerting its will over our politics via economic control. The govt should make strides to curb this imo.
Every nation is doing the same thing. Remember Cuba?
Re: US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know there are companies that try to tread lightly especially when they have sizable mainlander ranks and go to pains to try to not offend. And we obviously don’t want to speak to the people at large, but I definitely think we should have no qualms about calling out behavior of the Chinese gov as we do the Russian gov. It’s such a contrast for Russian expats and Chinese expats and how company wide comms go out aski…
Part of the deal is that the Chinese are much more hypersensitive than the Russians. The Chinese seem to have a deep inferiority complex about their country (a couple centuries of being over-run by foreigners can do that to you), and they are responding by aggressively trying to shut down any criticism whatsoever of China. But strong nations don't need to do that. Weak nations do. Russia is actually stronger than Chi…
Russia jails critics and worse on a frequent basis. From the Gulags to Pussy Riot to this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/06/russian-parlia...
> The law, which critics say is reminiscent of Soviet-era legislation used to target political dissidents, stipulates fines of up to 100,000 roubles (£1,155) for “indecent” online posts that demonstrate a “blatant disrespect for society, the country, Russia’s official state symbols, the constitution, or the authorities”.
Re: US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Part of the deal is that the Chinese are much more hypersensitive than the Russians. The Chinese seem to have a deep inferiority complex about their country (a couple centuries of being over-run by foreigners can do that to you), and they are responding by aggressively trying to shut down any criticism whatsoever of China. But strong nations don't need to do that. Weak nations do. Russia is actually stronger than Chi…
That's what your brain tells you. Is it reality? A better explanation: China is much more unstable than Russia, and revolution is a much more dangerous and consequential threat.
[deleted]
Re: US workers may have to change social media use as firms adapt to China's rules
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Part of the deal is that the Chinese are much more hypersensitive than the Russians. The Chinese seem to have a deep inferiority complex about their country (a couple centuries of being over-run by foreigners can do that to you), and they are responding by aggressively trying to shut down any criticism whatsoever of China. But strong nations don't need to do that. Weak nations do. Russia is actually stronger than Chi…
Russia jails critics and worse on a frequent basis. From the Gulags to Pussy Riot to this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/06/russian-parlia... > The law, which critics say is reminiscent of Soviet-era legislation used to target political dissidents, stipulates fines of up to 100,000 roubles (£1,155) for “indecent” online posts that demonstrate a “blatant disrespect for society, the country, Russia’s offic…
Sure they do. They don't do as much to exert international pressure, though.
Perhaps I should have said that, while China and Russia are both very concerned about their image inside the country (showing that they have some fear of their own population, perhaps), China is much touchier about its image outside the country.