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D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

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Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#71
post #5

Until there is some legally required amount of time to provide security updates for connected devices, I would expect the "buy a new one if you want to be protected" response to continue indefinitely.

At one "legal training" class our lawyers said that there is the potential that we could be required to recall and fix any product we have ever made. We have machines we made in the 1950s that are still regularly used for the purpose they were bought for, but without modern safety standards. We believe we can argue in court that the modern safety devices didn't even exist back then so we shouldn't have to update those machines, but we are not entirely sure and there is always the possibility that the legal framework could change. We have an official policy that once a recall is made, the replacement parts for a safety issue will be available forever, or until we can prove all existing machines have either been updated or scrapped. (The latter is considered impossible to prove and so there are kits available for machines that last shipped in the 1980s.) This policy has in fact protected us in lawsuits: we take safety seriously so mistakes are taken as unintentional and punitive damages don't apply.

I would expect a consumer router to run without problem for not less than 10 years: they should update it to work. Now they shouldn't have to add support for the next protocol or feature, but if it isn't secure that is different and should be fixed. All it takes is a lawyer.

Note that you don't have to have the affected router, just prove that an affected router is attacking you. I think there are people in IT who are able to prove this latter one so all that is left is bring it to your lawyers to get dlink to pay your costs from the attack.

Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#72
post #62
post #43

This is the new normal, folks. Consumer technology is manufactured for six to twelve months, but live in our homes for three to five years. Today's manufacturers cannot afford to update software for hardware devices they have already moved on from. Changing that requires a significant upheaval in their business models. This applies to every "connected device:" printers, cell phones, home routers, refrigerators, therm…

I daresay people aren't going to like this answer but, you ultimately have to align the interests of the manufacturers and the consumers. Which probably means some sort of subscription model and even a requirement that the subscription be current to function. I know. Yuck. But the only other real possibility is to legislate that such updates be made available for N years as part of the purchase conditions.

> the only other real possibility is to legislate that such updates be made available for N years as part of the purchase conditions

I am unclear why this is not the preferential solution here. "Don't sell lemons" is a societal good.

Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#73
post #9

This is precisely why I chose to install DD-WRT on all my routers. Not only does it give me more fine grain control over all my admin privileges, I know I don't have to rely on some company making the cost-benefit decision over if it's worth patching security bugs.

DD-WRT doesn't necessarily provide more security, typically models will get one release and then not get any more updates.

I've found OpenWRT to be better in this case, support does get dropped eventually but it's usually longer term even if less polished.

Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#74
post #65
post #43

This is the new normal, folks. Consumer technology is manufactured for six to twelve months, but live in our homes for three to five years. Today's manufacturers cannot afford to update software for hardware devices they have already moved on from. Changing that requires a significant upheaval in their business models. This applies to every "connected device:" printers, cell phones, home routers, refrigerators, therm…

>anyone who can address that problem If no one addresses this problem, regulations will be imposed.

Do you think it’s possible to regulate all of the internet connected consumer devices coming from China? Routers, WiFi lightbulbs, toasters, etc?

Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#75
I have a D-Link DIR-655 (which is on this list) as my home router. Ironically, I was going to replace it a few months ago, but the speed is still fast enough for my network.

A few posts mentioned installing a different (open source) firmware. But, both OpenWrt and DD-Wrt aren't compatible. Am I missing another option?

As an aside, can anyone recommend a wifi router that runs either OpenWrt or DD-Wrt well, for $100-$150?

Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#76
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should really, really hope hospitals are not using routers like these.

Medical equipment more and more often has networked embedded software that can't be updated. They won't throw away a multimillion-dollar device just because it can't be upgraded from Windows XP.

I'll bet they still have service agreements for those devices though, even if the software is old. Consumer routers do not have support like that.

Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#77
post #55
post #22

What is the best wifi-router out now for home hackers? I'd like to do a pi-hole type setup but without the pi-hole and I also need a stronger wifi signal than on the box my ISP gives me.

I'd suggest to avoid dealing with wifi routers as much as possible, they are not worth the time, and instead separate wifi and routing. Doing all the dhcp, dns/pi-holing, nat, firewalling on a PC-based router and using a wifi router behind it only for wifi.

this is the "proper" answer.

Seperating routing from providing wireless makes things far more flexible, not to mention you usually get two seperate devices which are far better at doing their sperate jobs compared to an all in one solution.

Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#78
post #72
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I daresay people aren't going to like this answer but, you ultimately have to align the interests of the manufacturers and the consumers. Which probably means some sort of subscription model and even a requirement that the subscription be current to function. I know. Yuck. But the only other real possibility is to legislate that such updates be made available for N years as part of the purchase conditions.

> the only other real possibility is to legislate that such updates be made available for N years as part of the purchase conditions I am unclear why this is not the preferential solution here. "Don't sell lemons" is a societal good.

It drives prices up in equivalence with subscription pricing over the typical lifespan.

(i.e. not obviously better or worse)

Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#79
post #43

This is the new normal, folks. Consumer technology is manufactured for six to twelve months, but live in our homes for three to five years. Today's manufacturers cannot afford to update software for hardware devices they have already moved on from. Changing that requires a significant upheaval in their business models. This applies to every "connected device:" printers, cell phones, home routers, refrigerators, therm…

> This is the new normal, folks. Consumer technology is manufactured for six to twelve months, but live in our homes for three to five years. Today's manufacturers cannot afford to update software for hardware devices they have already moved on from. Changing that requires a significant upheaval in their business models.

Ubiquiti has a number of CVEs and has addressed them in a timely manner, IMHO. If you’re buying the cheapest product then expect the cheapest support. My UniFi stuff is easy to manage and upgrade. I can set a number of auto updates I can’t do with other vendors.

Re: D-Link Home Routers Open to Remote Takeover Will Remain Unpatched

#80
post #72
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I daresay people aren't going to like this answer but, you ultimately have to align the interests of the manufacturers and the consumers. Which probably means some sort of subscription model and even a requirement that the subscription be current to function. I know. Yuck. But the only other real possibility is to legislate that such updates be made available for N years as part of the purchase conditions.

> the only other real possibility is to legislate that such updates be made available for N years as part of the purchase conditions I am unclear why this is not the preferential solution here. "Don't sell lemons" is a societal good.

They're not necessarily lemons at the time of sale though. In general, we don't legislate that products need to upgraded and maintained after they're sold. (Yes, there are lemon laws and warranty requirements for defects--which are at least related.)

However, how would you feel about legislation that required five years of dealer service to be included with every automobile sale? Or other products in a similar vein?

There is an idea of harm to the ecosystem/society with unpatched IoT and other network devices though. So perhaps a heavy-handed approach is justifiable.

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