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NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

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Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#61

Post by munk-a »

ellius wrote: post #37
munk-a wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have everything to lose and it's quite sane for them to back down from this fight. The NBA isn't our government, just because our politicians are spineless and fawning doesn't mean companies need to take up the fight. That all said it'd be awesome if they chose to push back even though it's entirely destructive to themselves.

Why is it any less the responsibility of American businessmen than American politicians? We're a nation of free people, and we all share in both the benefits and responsibilities of freedom. You don't get to pretend to be an American and then put your head in the sand and say, "Oh I'm just a businessman." If that's your first loyalty then fine, but at least be straight about it and don't try to have it both ways with…

It absolutely is the responsibility of American businessmen, but the question wasn't about businessmen it was about the NBA - the NBA is a corporation with no fealty, loyalty or citizenship within any country in the world. I think in America there has been a hard push to prevent government control into various companies - just because this scenario is about decrying a foreign entity instead of the US flexing power domestically (i.e. via warrantless wiretapping) doesn't change the fact that, at a basic level, it's the same exact problem.

Lastly, there are no American corporations, nothing should be given to them because they're assumed to be American and nothing should be expected of them - anything required of them should be encoded into law so that one corporation can't exploit the morally correct decision of another corporation as a weakness.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#62

Post by i_am_nomad »

yummypaint wrote: post #34
i_am_nomad wrote: post #24

The NBA boycotted North Carolina over HB2 (the “bathroom bill”), but doesn’t have a problem doing business in China. I hope they go bankrupt.

Exactly this. They have no claim of neutrality or being apolitical. They have already demonstrated that losing money for the sake of attacking lgbt rights is a sacrifice they're willing to make. The values of team owners and major nba stakeholders are already more in line with the ccp than the american public, so let them choke on our scorn. It's our collective responsibility to do them enough financial damage that t…

I’ll expand on this by pulling two sequential quotations in the article from NBA commissioner Adam Silver:

"It is inevitable that people around the world -- including America and China -- will have different viewpoints over different issues. It is not the role of the NBA to adjudicate those differences.”

Bullshit, see North Carolina.

“However, the NBA will not put itself in a position of regulating what players, employees and team owners say or will not say on these issues. We simply could not operate that way."

Bullshit, see Donald Sterling.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#63

Post by sorenn111 »

whitebread wrote: post #45

Can we relax with the self-made, altruistic view of billionaires? Self-made is a myth, and an NBA owner just released a book titled "Shut Up and Listen." Money talks, and it seems pretty clear that all of the moves previously made were actually for profits, not social causes.

How is self-made a myth? Not saying all billionaires should be envied, praised, etc. I'm sure many are huge manipulative asshole. But many also came from very modest to virtually no means, how is that a myth?

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#64

Post by lern_too_spel »

i_am_nomad wrote: post #24

The NBA boycotted North Carolina over HB2 (the “bathroom bill”), but doesn’t have a problem doing business in China. I hope they go bankrupt.

They did one thing right but did another thing wrong. Is that worse than doing two things wrong?

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#65

Post by justaduderr »

5trokerac3 wrote: post #50
justaduderr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, are you going to post about the many US atrocities as well? Slavery, extermination of the indigenous population, redlining, Jim Crow, exploitation of illegal immigrant labor, etc. Keep in mind this isn't even counting what the USA does abroad. China is bad, but USA is bad too. Make no mistake.

Everything from that list is from within the last 60 years. While China was murdering between 60 to 100 million of its citizens, America passed the Civil Rights Act.

I don't have too much time to educate you on these things but just to note:

Re: "60 to 100 million of its citizens" is just straight up wrong. There was a Great Famine in China* - Mao did not murder up to 100 million citizens. Are you serious? Your own source says as much.

Re: Social Credit System (SCS) - By pretty much every metric the SCS has not resulted in massive discrimination on the scale of racism and sexism in the United States. However this may change. But for now this is not really relevant in terms of making a comparison.

Funny enough I don't really like China that much (or any large country) for a variety of reasons, but your reasoning is both absurd and factually incorrect. It's literally propaganda. Please educate yourself before making outlandish claims. China murdered 60 to 100 million of its citizens? Jeez - the American education system is an embarrassment.

* Though the famine should not and cannot be compared to murder, anyone who has read the literature probably knows that Mao's overzealous policies during the period probably increased the death toll, but even so that cannot be said to be "murder". Saying such is propaganda and more importantly, wrong.

---

Also, to say American passed the Civil Rights Act without mentioning the Civil War is silly. The Civil War killed about 2% of the USA population. So if America was the size of China (which it wasn't), that would be like 12 million people dying, approximately half of the population generally accepted to have died during the 1960 in China (during the Great Famine).

I won't bother comparing Xinjiang to Guantanamo Bay...

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#66

Post by i_am_nomad »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #64
i_am_nomad wrote: post #24

The NBA boycotted North Carolina over HB2 (the “bathroom bill”), but doesn’t have a problem doing business in China. I hope they go bankrupt.

They did one thing right but did another thing wrong. Is that worse than doing two things wrong?

No, it only shows that they essentially have no principles at all, or at least none that they’re willing to lose money over (which is ultimately the same thing). It’s always useful when someone reveals their true moral fiber, as the NBA has done.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#67

Post by tw04 »

reaperducer wrote: post #26
tw04 wrote: post #20

The NBA really needs to grow a spine on this one. They have nothing to lose but incremental profits and in the long run China will lose. It will just be one more reminder for the populace that their current government restricts them from luxuries the rest of the world gets to experience. And if that doesn't bother them, good riddance I guess, it's not like China is going to come up with their own basketball league th…

While I agree that the NBA has stand up and to do the right thing, I'm not sure that "incremental" is the correct description of the league's profits. I read an article very recently (NY Times, maybe?) that laid out the numbers, and the amount of money the NBA earns in China dwarfs its U.S. revenue. not like China is going to come up with their own basketball league It already has basketball leagues. And considering…

>the amount of money the NBA earns in China dwarfs its U.S. revenue.

Source?

>It already has basketball leagues.

I guess it's a good thing I didn't say they don't. Partial quoting to try to make a point where there isn't one isn't very cool.

>And considering that China has exported star players to the NBA, it's certainly a possibility.

It's exported exactly one star: yao Ming, and one slightly above average player in Jeremy Lin. And those two were so far apart they never played in the NBA at the same time. If you think one star every 30 years is going to be good enough to replace an NBA that produces multiple stars every other year.... I guess pass whatever you're smoking my way.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#68

Post by madiathomas »

5trokerac3 wrote: post #59
madiathomas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me evidence of China travelling to other countries and kill millions of people like the United States. As a non-citizen of China, I am not worried about social credit system and any monitoring that happens in China. Every country does have some human rights violations. I am worried about a country that thinks they can travel to any country and bomb civilians when they want to loot their resources.

I have a feeling you're not going to want to admit this, but the current administration is actively reversing that policy. Also look into what China is doing economically in Africa and you might be reminded of pre-Gulf War America in the Middle East.

I live in an African country. I know what China is doing in my country. This is what they are doing -> Investing billions of rands and they never supported an unjust government like US which was sponsoring apartheid government in my country and listed Nelson Mandela as a terrorist for fighting against their favourite government which was oppressing black people in their own country.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#69

Post by derision »

munk-a wrote: post #21
jakeva wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I agree with the original, but that's a bit like asking why would anybody play music or make art (activities that rarely involve money)? Because they enjoy it.

Though the parent is accurate that in our western society doing a thing because you enjoy it is punished, both monetarily and socially, because you're not efficiently using your time to make someone else some money.

That couldn't be further from the truth

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#70

Post by [deleted] »

danem wrote: post #58
tw04 wrote: post #20

The NBA really needs to grow a spine on this one. They have nothing to lose but incremental profits and in the long run China will lose. It will just be one more reminder for the populace that their current government restricts them from luxuries the rest of the world gets to experience. And if that doesn't bother them, good riddance I guess, it's not like China is going to come up with their own basketball league th…

> it's not like China is going to come up with their own basketball league that's going to overtake the NBA, ever. Why not? Is it inconceivable that in the future the CBA will be able to compete with the NBA for top talent? I guarantee that down the road a future Zion Williamson will choose to play in China over New Orleans. This won't be in the near future mind you, but as the Chinese economy grows, and as basketbal…

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