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Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

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Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#571

Post by yungcoder »

notzuck wrote: post #536
yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

The appeasement policy was the right thing to do. The UK couldn't win a war in 1938 (no allies, no money, no air defence etc) and the bad taste of WW1 was still in peoples mouths. The policy did fail because Hitler was going to go to war no matter what but that is only with 20/20 hindsight. Appeasement wasn't the right policy, it was literally the only policy available to the UK at the time. I agree that we need to t…

Well even if having the resources of the largest colonial empire in history wasn't enough to allow the UK to win a war in 1938, what about in 1933? 1934? 1935-37? When the Germans seized the Rhineland in '36 they could have been easily steamrolled by a French-British alliance and that would have been the end of Nazi Germany then and there. Nazi Germany was only able to become the juggernaut it was because of the years of appeasement leading up to that point and I think we can agree by the time they became an apparent threat it was already too late. What I'm saying is if the parallel holds with China today, we are barreling towards 1938 at alarming speed and this time I don't think the world can afford to be wrong again.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#572

Post by nickv »

chrischen wrote: post #324

China executes an official Taiwan belongs to China stance to save face, as communist bureaucracies love to do. In practice, their official policy lets Taiwan exist as an independently governed region more than the US even allows Hawaii or Cuba to be independent. Even Canada has more of a attachment to the US and its laws than Taiwan does. This is probably a fact lost on most foreigners unaware of the situation. If Ch…

Huh? Hawaii is a part of the United States?

To the point that the last US president is from there.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#573

Post by dforrestwilson »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #569
yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

At some point we have to accept that if the Chinese were coming over the hill with nothing but chopsticks we’d still lose. When that happens you don’t want to be on the PRC’s most wanted list.

If this were in any way true then China would have conquered the entire world long ago.

No military or nation is invincible including China or the U.S.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#574

Post by leppr »

dpkonofa wrote: post #237
leppr wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The present piece of news goes against that argument though, as Apple devices are simultaneously the more expensive and less ethical option. These aspects don't seem correlated.

>less ethical option Are you getting that because of this flag issue or is there more behind that? I would argue that Apple is, by far, the more ethical option.

Was speaking about this issue specifically, but I'd be interested in hearing your arguments for the opposite side.

From Apple's historically more oppressive stance against freedom of expression in their own wallet garden, and the recent actions against the HK protest movement ("legitimate" app ban, the present article), my opinion is that Apple is a less ethical choice than Android which is more permissive and respectful of user freedom.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#575

Post by dkersten »

busterarm wrote: post #537
opportune wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi Arabia also does all of the things you listed, except perhaps desecration of cultural sites. Just because a country does things you don’t like doesn’t make it not a country

I wasn't arguing that, I was just calling out the parent for saying ISIS didn't use terrorism as a tactic. Nice whataboutism there though.

> I was just calling out the parent for saying ISIS didn't use terrorism as a tactic.

Where did they say this? I don't see anything about ISIS not using terrorism as a tactic, just that if you recognize ISIS as a state, you get called a terrorist sympathizer. Besides, plenty of countries use terrorist tactics when at war, unfortunately.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#576

Post by diminoten »

kuzimoto wrote: post #297
diminoten wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh we definitely have, everyone benefitted massively from the "manifest destiny" attitude behind the many atrocities committed against the native Americans. It's also not our fault , infar as we didn't literally pull any triggers. We're probably still complicit to some degree, however, by our general lack of support for reparation actions.

There are parts of US history where terrible things happened. It's important to acknowledge that, and be compassionate towards those it has affected. However, now that the US exists, it does a lot of good for many, many people. As a first generation immigrant, I'm glad that I was able to come here, as I think conditions are much better than my country of origin. That being said, am I complicit in everything bad that…

Yeah I totally agree, it's impossible to accurately split out all of the consequences of merely existing in a society, especially a global one like ours. Ooh, I walked on a street paid for by federal funding, am I now guilty of supporting the Bay of Pigs?

It's insane. The Native American example was just the first one that came to my mind that demonstrates that the "average" American of today does indeed benefit from atrocities committed hundreds of years ago.

Though I don't think it's a boolean, "Well you did it, you made up for the damage your ancestors caused" situation, but more of a, "Well now we are better equipped than we were before to handle the fallout of the damage your ancestors caused". And it's not just money (though money does fund everything), there's a lot more that the US government could be doing for the Native American people. Am I a bad person for not doing more? No. Could I probably do a bit more to help? Yeah.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#577

Post by spats1990 »

yungcoder wrote: post #562
spats1990 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think 2019 China is that similar to 1930s Germany you should just come right out and say it, in my opinion. Let that argument stand on its merits. If you didn't intend a parallel between 1930s Germany and 2019 China, there is, again in my opinion only, probably a better way of making your point.

[flagged]

1. Germany was preparing for outright war throughout the 1930s. Conscription was introduced in 1935.Is China seriously planning to militarily annex Taiwan? Leaving aside propaganda etc.

2. This point appears to be about how unfair historical treatment can lead to fascism. Are you saying that the people of China are headed in this direction?

3. I'll defer to your judgement as I presume you read mandarin/canto, but I don't see a big difference from western social networks there, except for probably in terms of number of users (larger userbase) . I can read Korean fairly well and see those kinds of nationalist comments on Korean social media sites as well (funnily enough, they also aren't fans of Japan at the moment. )

4. I know what's happening there and am a little hurt you'd assume I'd get into a discussion like this without knowing. Human rights abuses are bad. That seems like the most one can say without getting accused of whataboutism. Are there gas chambers in those camps? (edit:clarification below)

>Maybe I'm wrong and just being an alarmist

Maybe you're right and I'm just trying to hope for the best.

My original post on this thread came mostly from shock as I was raised on the internet era where it was considered a faux pas to do blithe Nazi comparisons. so I was mildly astounded to see that the top voted comment in here boiled down to "China is Weimar/Nazi Germany."

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#578

Post by skissane »

busterarm wrote: post #534
CydeWeys wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether a state uses terrorist tactics is orthogonal to the issue of it being a state. Was the Russian shooting down of MH-17 not a terrorist act undertaken by a state? How about the bombing of the Beirut barracks? How about any number of acts by Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, or Imperial Japan?

Sure, I won't even dispute that. What I'm disputing is that the parent poster said that ISIS did not use terrorist tactics. That is blatantly a false statement. I can't believe the negative reaction towards pointing that out.

What they said was ISIS "were fighting a conventional land war using conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics"

You are summarising that as "ISIS did not use terrorist tactics"

I think that is a misleading summary. I don't think the poster meant to dispute that ISIS was behind terrorist attacks, both in the Middle East and also in other parts of the world. What they were saying, is that ISIS was engaging in conventional (non-terrorist) military operations against the Syrian and Iraqi governments, other rebel groups, etc. Terrorism and conventional military tactics are not mutually exclusive, one can pursue both strategies at the same time. But the second strategy is a sign that one is dealing with something having de facto statehood, as opposed to a non-state terrorist group.

If you are getting heavily down-voted, a possible explanation is that people perceive you to be engaging in an uncharitable reading of the remarks you are responding to

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#580

Post by scrollaway »

spats1990 wrote: post #577
yungcoder wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

1. Germany was preparing for outright war throughout the 1930s. Conscription was introduced in 1935.Is China seriously planning to militarily annex Taiwan? Leaving aside propaganda etc. 2. This point appears to be about how unfair historical treatment can lead to fascism. Are you saying that the people of China are headed in this direction? 3. I'll defer to your judgement as I presume you read mandarin/canto, but I d…

> Are there gas chambers in those camps?

What on earth does it change whether there's gas chambers in there? If you're trying to claim they're not 1940s nazi germany, just say they don't speak german and be done with it.

If you're aware of what's happening over there then you are aware of the torture, yes?

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