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Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

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Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#531

Post by bigpumpkin »

yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

Wow, did not hear about the Rockets thing until now. Thanks.

I am confused tho, as an NBA fan, should I support the Rockets now that the Chinese are boycotting it. Or should I boycott them cause they bowed down to Chinese pressure?

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#532

Post by acangiano »

yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

A recent South Park episode parodied this quite well.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#533

Post by incompatible »

Aeolun wrote: post #527
incompatible wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are technically right in that most states recognize Taiwan as a province of the PRC. However, describing Taiwan as a distinct country is ambiguous, since "country" doesn't have a strict definition. E.g., it's normal to consider the parts of the UK, the Netherlands, and Denmark to be countries, although they are not independent. It's not much of a stretch to consider Tibet, Hong Kong and Taiwan, or Catalonia, to b…

The parts of the Netherlands are called provinces, and are not sovereign nations. The larger area you call the Netherlands that includes Belgium and Luxembourg is currently called the Benelux[1] 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux

I was thinking of the Kingdom of the Netherlands with its constituent countries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_the_Netherlands

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#534

Post by busterarm »

CydeWeys wrote: post #529
busterarm wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully many international treaties have been made in the last few thousand years and civilized nations wage war differently now. I was expressly disputing the parent poster's claim that ISIS did not use terrorist tactics, which is a statement I find difficult for anyone to really take issue with.

Whether a state uses terrorist tactics is orthogonal to the issue of it being a state. Was the Russian shooting down of MH-17 not a terrorist act undertaken by a state? How about the bombing of the Beirut barracks? How about any number of acts by Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, or Imperial Japan?

Sure, I won't even dispute that. What I'm disputing is that the parent poster said that ISIS did not use terrorist tactics.

That is blatantly a false statement. I can't believe the negative reaction towards pointing that out.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#535

Post by latch »

yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

> Quite frankly this all stinks of 1930s European appeasement

You're comparing this to an official policy of appeasing German and Italy's annexation of territory (and various other violations of the treaty), in an era of raising fascism and communism? Really?

It's fine if you want to say that this is bad, worrisome or even evil, but lets call it what it is: the strong bully the weak. This is how the world works.

So far China has largely been about flexing its economic power. This seems completely reasonable; why shouldn't they negotiate hard? I agree it's terrifying for those in the region that they could flex their military..but that's what superpowers do.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#536

Post by notzuck »

yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

The appeasement policy was the right thing to do. The UK couldn't win a war in 1938 (no allies, no money, no air defence etc) and the bad taste of WW1 was still in peoples mouths.

The policy did fail because Hitler was going to go to war no matter what but that is only with 20/20 hindsight.

Appeasement wasn't the right policy, it was literally the only policy available to the UK at the time.

I agree that we need to take a hard line with China though, I can't see how this is going to end given their massive increase in military size and technology plus we are all so tied together financially that we could cripple each other long before a shot is fired.

My friends seem to think that war is the only way this will end and I've got a young son so I sincerely hope not.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#537

Post by busterarm »

opportune wrote: post #521
busterarm wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-ISIS. At their peak they had a sizeable chunk of land, a flag, a capital, civic functions like a court system, an oil industry, handed out passports, were fighting a conventional land war using conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics, had a uniformed army, and the word "state" was right there in the name. But don't you dare call them a state lest someone mistake you for a terrorist sympathizer. That's playing…

Saudi Arabia also does all of the things you listed, except perhaps desecration of cultural sites. Just because a country does things you don’t like doesn’t make it not a country

I wasn't arguing that, I was just calling out the parent for saying ISIS didn't use terrorism as a tactic.

Nice whataboutism there though.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#538

Post by spats1990 »

yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

If you think 2019 China is that similar to 1930s Germany you should just come right out and say it, in my opinion. Let that argument stand on its merits.

If you didn't intend a parallel between 1930s Germany and 2019 China, there is, again in my opinion only, probably a better way of making your point.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#539

Post by lacampbell »

latch wrote: post #535
yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

> Quite frankly this all stinks of 1930s European appeasement You're comparing this to an official policy of appeasing German and Italy's annexation of territory (and various other violations of the treaty), in an era of raising fascism and communism? Really? It's fine if you want to say that this is bad, worrisome or even evil, but lets call it what it is: the strong bully the weak. This is how the world works. So f…

Communist China has annexed territory. It also has a civilian death count much higher than that of Nazi Germany.

I often think that if Germany had won the war people today would be talking about how it wasn't pragmatic not to do business with the greater reich. "Sure they ethnically cleansed eastern europe but whataboutamerica?"

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#540

Post by notzuck »

notzuck wrote: post #536
yungcoder wrote: post #511

Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just e…

The appeasement policy was the right thing to do. The UK couldn't win a war in 1938 (no allies, no money, no air defence etc) and the bad taste of WW1 was still in peoples mouths. The policy did fail because Hitler was going to go to war no matter what but that is only with 20/20 hindsight. Appeasement wasn't the right policy, it was literally the only policy available to the UK at the time. I agree that we need to t…

Thank you for the downvote. Much easier try to silence an opinion you don't like than leave a meaningful response. Why bother downvoting if you don't like what I said? This isn't reddit... or high school.

I just watched two history professors debate this very topic here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmyecSXOla8

A very interesting watch because unlike hit and run downvoters, I am interested in learning.

side note: I now don't know what I think - both arguments were very good.

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