Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#501

Post by dwyer » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:13 AM UTC

thewholeview wrote: post #438

qwerty456127 wrote: post #427

The whole "unrecognised country" nonsense should begone. Everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country (and does a reasonable job of being a decent country for the people living in it, it obviously is a better country than a number of completely recognized ones) yet it still has "limited recognition". How about recognizing the facts rather than virtual reality of politicians' imagination? Banning an entire country is…

It's not nonsense, and "everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country" is a flawed statement. The UN does not recognize Taiwan. Taiwan is recognized as a sovereignty by 19 UN member states. It has formal diplomatic relationships with ~50 UN member states. UN has 193 member states in total. Please refrain from using subjective unprovable ideology to represent the mass.

The UN was founded in 1945. I have reason to believe that countries existed long before that.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#502

Post by jdoliner » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:15 AM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #498

IIAOPSW wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De Jure nationhood is a stupid game that ignores facts on the ground in favor of politicians vision. It is predicated on a fallacy that "legitimacy" is a vital resource and that those already in the nation club have a monopoly on it. At this point calling groups "countries" and calling other groups "terrorists" is better understood as the geopolitical equivalent of a curse word and/or a propaganda trope. -Order of Ma…

-ISIS. At their peak they had a sizeable chunk of land, a flag, a capital, civic functions like a court system, an oil industry, handed out passports, were fighting a conventional land war using conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics, had a uniformed army, and the word "state" was right there in the name. But don't you dare call them a state lest someone mistake you for a terrorist sympathizer. That's playing…

> That's playing a bit fast and loose with the facts there. ISIS conducted public executions, crucifixions, desecration of cultural sites and enslaved people for a labor force. That's textbook asymmetric warfare/terrorism.

To me that just sounds like textbook nationhood. The defining feature of the state is having the monopoly on violence within its borders.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#503

Post by imulligan » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:17 AM UTC

Looks like the US Trade Policy is driving the car that carries the flag.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#504

Post by voldacar » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:19 AM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #498

IIAOPSW wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De Jure nationhood is a stupid game that ignores facts on the ground in favor of politicians vision. It is predicated on a fallacy that "legitimacy" is a vital resource and that those already in the nation club have a monopoly on it. At this point calling groups "countries" and calling other groups "terrorists" is better understood as the geopolitical equivalent of a curse word and/or a propaganda trope. -Order of Ma…

-ISIS. At their peak they had a sizeable chunk of land, a flag, a capital, civic functions like a court system, an oil industry, handed out passports, were fighting a conventional land war using conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics, had a uniformed army, and the word "state" was right there in the name. But don't you dare call them a state lest someone mistake you for a terrorist sympathizer. That's playing…

> ISIS conducted public executions, crucifixions, desecration of cultural sites and enslaved people for a labor force.

you mean things which "recognized" states do all the time?

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#505

Post by blunte » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:21 AM UTC

This is another reminder that we should not have corporate gatekeepers to the apps and content on our devices.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#506

Post by IIAOPSW » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:22 AM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #498

IIAOPSW wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

De Jure nationhood is a stupid game that ignores facts on the ground in favor of politicians vision. It is predicated on a fallacy that "legitimacy" is a vital resource and that those already in the nation club have a monopoly on it. At this point calling groups "countries" and calling other groups "terrorists" is better understood as the geopolitical equivalent of a curse word and/or a propaganda trope. -Order of Ma…

-ISIS. At their peak they had a sizeable chunk of land, a flag, a capital, civic functions like a court system, an oil industry, handed out passports, were fighting a conventional land war using conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics, had a uniformed army, and the word "state" was right there in the name. But don't you dare call them a state lest someone mistake you for a terrorist sympathizer. That's playing…

Was the Roman Empire a country?

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#507

Post by apostacy » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:22 AM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #373

djohnston wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

by couldn't compete, i assume you mean, "didn't want to hand over all their IP to CCP, who would in turn give it to the native competitor", right?

No by couldn't compete, the OP probably means western tech companies do a remarkably poor job of understanding the Chinese market and frequently gets out innovated. When Google first entered the Chinese market, Google PinYin input lifted data from Sogou Pinyin because they couldn't get basic input prediction right. Baidu RankDex predates Google PageRank and was referenced by Larry Page when he submitted patent for Pa…

> Western companies simply gave up and didn't learn how to scale content moderation until the last few years when social media had to deal with the same violent extremism that China did during the Tibetan and XinJiang riots that lead to FB/Twitter ban. As evidenced by current Youtube debacles, Google still can't / refuse to get human content control right.

First of all, I don't want them to do "human content control". That is stupid.

I will happily concede that China is better at nightmarish Orwellian censorship policies, congratulations, big accomplishment. I hope America never catches up.

How uncivilized must China be, if they need an army of censors to edit what everyone says? Americans have gotten along well without that. Based on how Chinese government treats its people, you must conclude that Chinese people are monsters that are constantly plotting violence. I choose to believe that the Chinese government is just too authoritarian and controlling.

Any American corporation that kowtows to the Chinese government's demands has nothing to be proud of.

It should be illegal for American companies to facilitate the evil that the PRC government commits. I don't want Google making money sending ethnic minorities to "re-education" camps.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#508

Post by taobility » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:23 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #440

qwerty456127 wrote: post #427

The whole "unrecognised country" nonsense should begone. Everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country (and does a reasonable job of being a decent country for the people living in it, it obviously is a better country than a number of completely recognized ones) yet it still has "limited recognition". How about recognizing the facts rather than virtual reality of politicians' imagination? Banning an entire country is…

It took until 1979 for the United States to recognize that China was, in fact, governed from Beijing, not Taipei. (Beijing won the civil war in 1950.) Today, in 2019, Taiwan still does not recognize China. Recognition is a chip in the game of geopolitics.

You made few mistakes: 1. Beijing won the civil war at 1949. 2. UN has recognized PRC at 1971 and abandoned Taiwan or ROC. And till now, only very limited countries in the world (17) recognized Taiwan as independent state

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#509

Post by jdoliner » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:26 AM UTC

IIAOPSW wrote: post #486

qwerty456127 wrote: post #427

The whole "unrecognised country" nonsense should begone. Everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country (and does a reasonable job of being a decent country for the people living in it, it obviously is a better country than a number of completely recognized ones) yet it still has "limited recognition". How about recognizing the facts rather than virtual reality of politicians' imagination? Banning an entire country is…

De Jure nationhood is a stupid game that ignores facts on the ground in favor of politicians vision. It is predicated on a fallacy that "legitimacy" is a vital resource and that those already in the nation club have a monopoly on it. At this point calling groups "countries" and calling other groups "terrorists" is better understood as the geopolitical equivalent of a curse word and/or a propaganda trope. -Order of Ma…

Based on this framework it doesn't seem entirely clear to me Taiwan is a de facto nation. Do they have the monopoly on violence over their land? From my understanding (which admittedly isn't great) they at best of a duopoly on violence in their land shared with China, and China might have a better claim to that monopoly than they do. That being said, I completely agree with your broader point De Jure nationhood is a stupid game, and it's much more sensible to simply look at reality and make your own judgments about who is and isn't a legitimate state.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#510

Post by busterarm » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 12:26 AM UTC

IIAOPSW wrote: post #506

busterarm wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-ISIS. At their peak they had a sizeable chunk of land, a flag, a capital, civic functions like a court system, an oil industry, handed out passports, were fighting a conventional land war using conventional (not terrorist/guerilla) tactics, had a uniformed army, and the word "state" was right there in the name. But don't you dare call them a state lest someone mistake you for a terrorist sympathizer. That's playing…

Was the Roman Empire a country?

Thankfully many international treaties have been made in the last few thousand years and civilized nations wage war differently now. I was expressly disputing the parent poster's claim that ISIS did not use terrorist tactics, which is a statement I find difficult for anyone to really take issue with.