Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#431

Post by bllguo » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:31 PM UTC

kuzimoto wrote: post #297

diminoten wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh we definitely have, everyone benefitted massively from the "manifest destiny" attitude behind the many atrocities committed against the native Americans. It's also not our fault , infar as we didn't literally pull any triggers. We're probably still complicit to some degree, however, by our general lack of support for reparation actions.

There are parts of US history where terrible things happened. It's important to acknowledge that, and be compassionate towards those it has affected. However, now that the US exists, it does a lot of good for many, many people. As a first generation immigrant, I'm glad that I was able to come here, as I think conditions are much better than my country of origin. That being said, am I complicit in everything bad that…

> Can any amount of money even make up for what happened?

maybe not, but that is hardly a reason to do nothing instead

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#432

Post by msla » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:33 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #413

dirtyid wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related to the original discussion, I wonder if there's a story behind how Taiwan got a emoji flag in the first place. Unicode Consortium referenced ISO 3166 for eligibility. Taiwan and a few other disputed regions didn't the cut until 3166-2 revision. The maintenance agency consists of representative from only western agencies. Interesting politics.

Isn't there a pretty objective and non-political case that Taiwan is it's own country? It has its own laws and government, and has presided over its own affairs for more than 50 years. Whether the CCP wishes this was not the case doesn't affect the reality on the ground.

All politics is a charade to some extent, a social game humans play to achieve a result which we can't really get to otherwise; international politics is simultaneously more obviously a charade and precisely the place where keeping up the charade is most important, because the consequences are far more present.

In national politics, there's a government and that government has a police force and a military. Regardless of which political party or coalition is in control, the government goes on, day to day, running things, which includes holding elections, the magic which gives legitimacy to the process. As long as elections are real, the people are mostly willing to go along with it, so the consequences of utterly disregarding legitimacy remain remote.

International politics has no such entity, or at least none that has sufficient recognition. Therefore, it is essential that everyone play along with the norms, because deviating from those norms is more likely to spark a war.

Ultimately, a country is what a majority recognize as such; before you go away, however, consider how long you'd live if you insisted you were human but couldn't get anyone else to agree with you.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#433

Post by bllguo » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:36 PM UTC

todd3834 wrote: post #350

For someone who is completely ignorant to what is going on with Taiwan / Hong Kong / China… What's the quickest way to get up to speed from a "neutral?" source?

I encourage you to talk to some Chinese-Americans, at least they will have some understanding of both viewpoints unlike all the Western and Chinese media coverage out there

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#434

Post by marnett » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

dpkonofa wrote: post #244

marnett wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry, the average American are direct beneficiaries of the atrocities of the past This is true for most humans alive in nearly all nation-states today. At some point in the linear chain of humanity that allows my existence today, atrocities were committed. Whether an ancient ancestor strangling a potential threat with their bare hands, or the nation-state I was born in acquiring land through militaristic expansion…

Of course but I think the point is that we can stop supporting the continued benefit of these. Money talks and both people and corporations can talk the talk by not supporting these countries and not caving to them.

I do not support the atrocities that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is committing against the people of Yemen (civilian death toll closing in on 100,000 [0]) with American purchased F-35 jets manufactured by Lockheed Martin.

How can I, as a person, talk with my money to prevent this? How can Lockheed Martin, a corporation whose fiduciary obligation is to generate profit for its shareholders, prevent this? How can the US government, who benefits greatly from a prosperous diplomatic relationship with the Monarch, prevent this?

> not caving to them

Fundamentally what I am saying is these institutions are not "caving in" - they are doing what they are doing because, from an emotionless game-theoretical perspective, it is beneficial to the success and longevity of the institution.

Apple benefits from an increasingly strong business relationship (the new diplomacy of the multinational) with mainland China - not just for their supply chain, but also for their marketshare.

These benefits have cost. For US-KSA the cost is tens of thousands of Yemeni civilian lives; for Apple the cost is decreased mindshare of the sovereign nationstate of Taiwan.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/20/h...

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#435

Post by jackjeff » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

jiggliemon wrote: post #430

peterkelly wrote: post #40

This reminds me of the story about how the first release of Windows 95 was banned in India because 8 pixels of the map shown in the timezone selection control panel were colored in such a way that suggested parts of Kashmir were part of Pakistan. https://www.cnet.com/news/how-eight-pixels-cost-microsoft-mi... https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030822-00/?p=42...

It’s one thing for India to censor something for a stupid reason. It makes me uncomfortable to have China be able to influence all these other global countries into global (or in this case localized) censorship. Hollywood, News Companies, anything else that China invests heavily has no choice but to fall in line with the censorship.

I’m surprised Trump’s trade war has not “escalated” to banning the Chinese emoji yet...

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#436

Post by cmroanirgo » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #428

cmroanirgo wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having "locale icons" rather than geopolitical-region flags is probably the most stable arrangement we can have Agreed. The only other way to draw locales would be to country outlines: which would most certainly open a Pandora's Box of socio political issues. What Apple has effectively done by invalidating the locale, is to remove the Taiwanese language. As an aside though: from a personal point of view there's qui…

What do you have against feces and expressions of disgust/contempt?

I would rather use words to describe whether something is a contemptible pile of guano, and these cutsie images are reducing our ability to eloquently and accurately communicate. A well placed, terse word can have far more impact and meaning than the 4yr old speak that emoji bring us to. Your username is a perfect example: it's hilarious.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#437

Post by jcadam » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #413

dirtyid wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related to the original discussion, I wonder if there's a story behind how Taiwan got a emoji flag in the first place. Unicode Consortium referenced ISO 3166 for eligibility. Taiwan and a few other disputed regions didn't the cut until 3166-2 revision. The maintenance agency consists of representative from only western agencies. Interesting politics.

Isn't there a pretty objective and non-political case that Taiwan is it's own country? It has its own laws and government, and has presided over its own affairs for more than 50 years. Whether the CCP wishes this was not the case doesn't affect the reality on the ground.

Taiwan was never under the control of the PRC, so... yeah.

Don't worry, there'll be a major war to settle the issue sometime this century, I would bet.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#438

Post by thewholeview » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #427

The whole "unrecognised country" nonsense should begone. Everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country (and does a reasonable job of being a decent country for the people living in it, it obviously is a better country than a number of completely recognized ones) yet it still has "limited recognition". How about recognizing the facts rather than virtual reality of politicians' imagination? Banning an entire country is…

It's not nonsense, and "everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country" is a flawed statement. The UN does not recognize Taiwan. Taiwan is recognized as a sovereignty by 19 UN member states. It has formal diplomatic relationships with ~50 UN member states. UN has 193 member states in total. Please refrain from using subjective unprovable ideology to represent the mass.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#439

Post by dghughes » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:46 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #413

dirtyid wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related to the original discussion, I wonder if there's a story behind how Taiwan got a emoji flag in the first place. Unicode Consortium referenced ISO 3166 for eligibility. Taiwan and a few other disputed regions didn't the cut until 3166-2 revision. The maintenance agency consists of representative from only western agencies. Interesting politics.

Isn't there a pretty objective and non-political case that Taiwan is it's own country? It has its own laws and government, and has presided over its own affairs for more than 50 years. Whether the CCP wishes this was not the case doesn't affect the reality on the ground.

Not only a country but Taiwan is officially the Republic of China. The government of China under Chiang Kai-shek established itself in Taiwan. If anything Taiwan is China and the PRC is the remnants of a communist overthrow.

Re: Apple Hides Taiwan Flag in Hong Kong

#440

Post by vkou » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:47 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #427

The whole "unrecognised country" nonsense should begone. Everybody knows Taiwan is a distinct country (and does a reasonable job of being a decent country for the people living in it, it obviously is a better country than a number of completely recognized ones) yet it still has "limited recognition". How about recognizing the facts rather than virtual reality of politicians' imagination? Banning an entire country is…

It took until 1979 for the United States to recognize that China was, in fact, governed from Beijing, not Taipei.

(Beijing won the civil war in 1950.)

Today, in 2019, Taiwan still does not recognize China.

Recognition is a chip in the game of geopolitics.