Live data from Hacker News

Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

forum.xda-developers.com

81–90 of 101 posts

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#81
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as one aside on this, it's pretty clear by now that it isn't simply a matter of doing a source control get and the vendor's work is done. Aside from simply having technical insight into the individual ROMs, you needn't look further than the disaster that has been Sony Erricson and Dell's Android entrants to see the truth in this -- those vendors came out with devices running dated Android versions, turning possi…

I wouldn't be surprised if the in-house development costs rivaled or exceeded what something like Windows Mobile cost to license. That implies that Windows Mobile doesn't require similar in-house effort, on top of the OEM license fees. Windows phones still require the same hardware driver development effort, and WM7 is already starting to receive the carrier-bastardization treatment. I'd say Android's licensing being…

Actually, this is not true.

Android OEMs have to develop their own drivers to get the various components (screen, GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, 3G radio, accelerometer, etc.) working whereas with WP7, Microsoft will provide all the device drivers. Part of this can be attributed to the fact that Android devices have a much wider range of hardware options, so it's a lot more difficult to have an uniform set of drivers.

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#82
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" As has been shown time and time again, vendors really don't want the burden of keeping your handset up to date forever because there is nothing in it for them, aside from perhaps avoiding too much negative press. " The reality is a lot more depressing; the vendors actually want you to buy a new phone. If your current phone can run the latest version of Android - why would you bother ... ?

Depressingly true, but there's a flip side: - Brand loyalty. Apple's fans are die-hard partly because Apple doesn't (often) screw their users. You can expect timely (even major) updates to your iPhone for quite some time after release. When's the last time someone reported that they won't buy anything but LG/Samsung/Motorola? - Apple also loves having you on the upgrade cycle. The difference is that these have been l…

> ou can expect timely (even major) updates to your iPhone for quite some time after release.

2+1 (2 years full support — barring hardware limitations — and 1 year partial support: some new features, but not everything)

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#83
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" As has been shown time and time again, vendors really don't want the burden of keeping your handset up to date forever because there is nothing in it for them, aside from perhaps avoiding too much negative press. " The reality is a lot more depressing; the vendors actually want you to buy a new phone. If your current phone can run the latest version of Android - why would you bother ... ?

Depressingly true, but there's a flip side: - Brand loyalty. Apple's fans are die-hard partly because Apple doesn't (often) screw their users. You can expect timely (even major) updates to your iPhone for quite some time after release. When's the last time someone reported that they won't buy anything but LG/Samsung/Motorola? - Apple also loves having you on the upgrade cycle. The difference is that these have been l…

I would argue that there is a reason why Samsung, LG, Motorola, et al cannot follow this model – Apple is a player in the high end of the mobile market. They come out with a new phone once a year, and it's hotly anticipated because in most (if not all) respects the new phone will be the most impressive phone on the market. Couple that with new OS features, and it creates quite a buzz.

If Samsung (for example) just made one phone a year, they'd lose market share because it would only be 'the latest thing' for a few weeks until someone else came out with an Android phone. Even if Samsung's product life cycle comes in one-year intervals, the rest of the Android community is much faster, and carriers will be glad to push the latest new phone with the latest whiz-bang features.

In order for Samsung to really compete, they would have to make a high-end, cutting-edge phone, comparable in build quality, features, and software to the iPhone. It would have to stand head and shoulders above the sea of mediocre Android handsets, and stay there for quite a while. It would need to be different enough from the rest that it was a clear winner, the Android phone to own this year. This would have to be said about the hardware and the software.

There are two problems here. Samsung isn't a software company, so their modifications to Android are superficial at best and mostly take the form of different UIs, as well as the bundled carrier apps that they have to agree to in order to get a carrier's full support. Samsung can't make a truly great smartphone because they're shipping the same thing everyone else is shipping – the latest Android build, with a different coat of paint.

There's also the hardware end. Apple knows that they're going to sell massive numbers of phones (according to the earnings call today, they're selling them as fast as they're making them, which I believe). They can pre-buy billions of dollars worth of components ahead of time to get preferential pricing and treatment. Their competitors can't match them because they simply cannot get the same hardware for the same price, and so their margins end up slimmer and they have to sell more units to recoup their costs.

Amusingly, Samsung is one of the companies Apple has preferential deals with (for Flash memory), and if I recall correctly, LG is another one (for LCD panels, not likely for mobile though).

So in order for Samsung to make the exact same hardware as Apple, they would have to sell it for more, in larger volumes, with lower margins, which would require betting big on one new product and impressing everyone. It would also require doing something new and innovative with Android, which is difficult because Google and Apple are both doing new and innovative things with their respective OSes so it would be difficult for Samsung to get ahead of either one.

Even assuming they did all that, they're still up against iOS's established mind share. Everyone's heard of the iPhone, and a lot of people want it. They want the apps, the TV shows, the movies, the music. Each step Apple has taken has built upon the successes of the last - first iTunes, then the iPod, then the iTunes Store, then movies and TV shows, then the iPhone, then the app store, and then the iPad. Samsung can't duplicate the entire stack, and they can't piece it together from existing offerings in a way that other providers (or end users) couldn't do. Even if they did manage that, they wouldn't be taking nearly as much of the profits from all of those services as Apple does with its own stack.

There's no way for Samsung (or the other providers) to differentiate themselves significantly. In consumers' minds, there's 'Blackberry', 'iPhone' and 'neither', and establishing a totally new category just for one phone based off of the same software as most of the smartphones in the 'neither' category isn't feasible; supporting it for two years afterward is impossible.

It's much more practical for Samsung to ship a new, slightly-better-than-the-rest phone every six months and just catch their share of the little fish, instead of trying to catch the big fish and risk getting hurt.

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#84
post #67
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Samsung won't release their kernel modifications for > Froyo which are needed by the CM team to get CM7 running > on the Galaxy S devices Isn't this a violation of the GPL?

Not if it's a driver.

You mean, not if it's a driver with a GPL-compatible shim (a la nVidia).

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#85

As an Android user (and promoter to my friends/family), I'm starting to get worried about Google's approach to the product. Not because of "fragmentation" (which to me is an argument that essentially says "Android isn't going to ever be successful because its too successful now"), but because of the lack of attention it seems to be getting from Google . It isn't just the OS itself-- several of Google's own apps are g…

To be fair, Listen isn't an official google project, it's a 20% project, and the devs that started it probably just got bored with it, and/or busy. http://groups.google.com/group/listen-discuss/browse_thread/...

Good point.

I think Listen's bugginess would only be mildly irritating if more critical (and official) Google apps like Voice didn't have almost-dealbreakers cropping up so often.

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#86
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that they haven't shipped Froyo officially. But yes, manufacturers, even HTC, have been up to 6 months late delivering code as required via GPL.

If Samsung release full source to their Eclair port, the community would be happy to forward-port the drivers to Froyo. But without source they can't.

Are we missing even Eclair source? I know Froyo and GB have changed things enough with some of the drivers that forward porting has been harder than expected... but if Eclair's source is missing, it seems the proper response is some sort of campaign to get Samsung in gear. I do think that HTC responded to GPL complaints when they had held out so long on releasing their kernel mods.

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#87
post #41
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got an X10 for free with upgrade over the holidays and love it. It makes me wonder if all the talk about version upgrades is mere noise. I'm relieved not to be affected by the Android SMS bug in Froyo, so will happily wait until it is fixed. Even if my phone ever sees an upgrade to Eclair, I probably won't notice with AT&T's customizations, which I like quite a bit. It's funny to hear the X10 described as a loser w…

Wait, didn't everyone like XP more than Vista? I know I used Windows from version 3.1 right up until my experiences with Vista convinced me that spending an extra $1000 to get a MacBook Pro instead of a Vista laptop was completely worth it...

[deleted]

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depressingly true, but there's a flip side: - Brand loyalty. Apple's fans are die-hard partly because Apple doesn't (often) screw their users. You can expect timely (even major) updates to your iPhone for quite some time after release. When's the last time someone reported that they won't buy anything but LG/Samsung/Motorola? - Apple also loves having you on the upgrade cycle. The difference is that these have been l…

> ou can expect timely (even major) updates to your iPhone for quite some time after release. 2+1 (2 years full support — barring hardware limitations — and 1 year partial support: some new features, but not everything)

3 years for a phone is enough.

What I like about Apple is that I could get iOS 3.1.3 installed on a first generation iPod Touch. Doesn't run well, but it works, and I could get the games I play installed on it and running; most apps still run on iOS 3.x.

I also have an iPhone 3GS, with iOS 4.2 on it: there's no incentive for me to buy an iPhone 4, so I'll wait for iPhone 5 or even 6. Apple is still happy because I keep being an iPhone user.

This story about Android is pretty sad, as I was considering getting a Galaxy S. Now that Apple phones are sold by each of the 3 GSM/3G operators in my country (and for reasonable prices) ... what incentive do I have to buy an Android which I cannot upgrade myself?

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#89
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" As has been shown time and time again, vendors really don't want the burden of keeping your handset up to date forever because there is nothing in it for them, aside from perhaps avoiding too much negative press. " The reality is a lot more depressing; the vendors actually want you to buy a new phone. If your current phone can run the latest version of Android - why would you bother ... ?

Depressingly true, but there's a flip side: - Brand loyalty. Apple's fans are die-hard partly because Apple doesn't (often) screw their users. You can expect timely (even major) updates to your iPhone for quite some time after release. When's the last time someone reported that they won't buy anything but LG/Samsung/Motorola? - Apple also loves having you on the upgrade cycle. The difference is that these have been l…

I have an iPhone 3GS already, and there's no incentive for me to upgrade to iPhone 4.

Which is pretty cool, considering that many people buy these iPhones with a 2 year contract. There's nothing more depressing than having to pay monthly rates for a deprecated product.

Which is why I think Apple's fine with a 2-3 years upgrade cycle, as long as you keep being an iPhone user.

Re: Why U.S. Galaxy S Phones run Android 2.1

#90
post #13

The conflicting interests issue is really a problem in the Android space. As has been shown time and time again, vendors really don't want the burden of keeping your handset up to date forever because there is nothing in it for them, aside from perhaps avoiding too much negative press. Naturally people are going to compare it to iOS, where updates are free and rapidly disseminated. The difference there is that there…

> As has been shown time and time again, vendors really don't want the burden of keeping your handset up to date forever because there is nothing in it for them, aside from perhaps avoiding too much negative press. Then stop locking the bootloader and let me put the latest version of CM on my phone. I'm not going to buy Motorola and I'm not going to buy Samsung. Samsung won't release their kernel modifications for Fr…

This story was the one that broke the camel's back for me, in terms of waiting for Samsung/T-Mobile to ship a 2.2 update for the Vibrant. I dug around and found "Eugene's Ginger Clone" 2.2 ROM and installed it yesterday. My Vibrant is noticeably snappier, battery is lasting longer, and it's now devoid of bloatware.

Latest release announcement here: http://eb-productions.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=samsungs...

Video overview here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCKsiH0wWgg

Post reply on HN