GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees • Hacker News Board

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#211

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

ScottFree wrote: post #205

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries have already figured this out. And no one ever calls it “free healthcare” except for a few naive American libertarians. They don’t provide free healthcare, and if you aren’t in the system (and paying via taxes or otherwise covered via tax revenue redistribution), you’ll get a bill one way or the other (unless there is an agreement between two socialized health systems).

> Other countries have already figured this out. None of those countries are the size of the US. Just like in Physics, you can't expect a 1/10th scale model to behave the same as the life sized version.

Japan has what...126 million people? So according to your math, America must have 1.26 billion people? Australia is as big as the US if you meant by area, plenty of other countries approach 100+ million besides Japan.

The EU has 511 million people. Sure it is multiple systems, but they all work much better than ours does.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#212

Post by turk73 » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

ScottFree wrote: post #176

chooseaname wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to meet a single person who hasn't enthusiastically agreed that we should separate healthcare from employment. The reluctance comes when nobody has any idea what we're going to replace it with. Sadly, I have, and it is invariably from people who basically say those who don't work don't deserve healthcare. It is disturbing to hear people say this. They don't want to "pay" for someone else's healthcare. Th…

Despite all our democratic and republican[0] efforts, we still wound up with a ruling class. Ruling classes aren't necessarily bad, but in order for that to work, the ruling class need to care about the welfare of the people they rule. That is not the case in the US right now. Our ruling class has turned parasitic and doesn't care that they are killing their constituents. The opioid crisis proves that. [0]: the polit…

Well said, and this is exactly why we should murder all of them.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#213

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #211

ScottFree wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other countries have already figured this out. None of those countries are the size of the US. Just like in Physics, you can't expect a 1/10th scale model to behave the same as the life sized version.

Japan has what...126 million people? So according to your math, America must have 1.26 billion people? Australia is as big as the US if you meant by area, plenty of other countries approach 100+ million besides Japan. The EU has 511 million people. Sure it is multiple systems, but they all work much better than ours does.

[deleted]

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#214

Post by thaumasiotes » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

chooseaname wrote: post #161

ScottFree wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to meet a single person who hasn't enthusiastically agreed that we should separate healthcare from employment. The reluctance comes when nobody has any idea what we're going to replace it with. We're at an unusual social state in this country where nobody trusts the government and nobody trusts big business. What does that leave? I'm a US freelancer, so I don't get health insurance through my employer. I g…

> I have yet to meet a single person who hasn't enthusiastically agreed that we should separate healthcare from employment. The reluctance comes when nobody has any idea what we're going to replace it with. Sadly, I have, and it is invariably from people who basically say those who don't work don't deserve healthcare. It is disturbing to hear people say this. They don't want to "pay" for someone else's healthcare. Th…

>> We're at an unusual social state in this country where nobody trusts the government and nobody trusts big business. What does that leave?

> Where did we go so wrong?

False premise. Merchants and governments have been widely distrusted as far back as records exist. Merchants in particular are commonly the subject of some kind of official orthodoxy noting how evil they are.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#215

Post by mypalmike » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:08 PM UTC

ScottFree wrote: post #205

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other countries have already figured this out. And no one ever calls it “free healthcare” except for a few naive American libertarians. They don’t provide free healthcare, and if you aren’t in the system (and paying via taxes or otherwise covered via tax revenue redistribution), you’ll get a bill one way or the other (unless there is an agreement between two socialized health systems).

> Other countries have already figured this out. None of those countries are the size of the US. Just like in Physics, you can't expect a 1/10th scale model to behave the same as the life sized version.

Are you implying that unit cost would increase at larger scale?

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#216

Post by walshemj » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #132

walshemj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was comparing the US DC (401k) vs say the UK (A Group Personal Pension or a SIPP).

Based on some quick Googling, I don't see what is so much better about an SIPP or a group personal pension plan? SIPP offers some kind of matching from the government, but it doesn't seem significant.

Main one is Tax relief at your highest rate on income tax you get an extra 20% into your pension - if your a higher rate tax payer you can reclaim the extra tax relief.

For a higher rate taxpayer you put in £60 and get £100 in your pension.

You can also do salary sacrifice and reduce you income tax and NI lability

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#217

Post by dang » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

orian wrote: post #92

zarro wrote: post #85

I really think that the sooner we can separate out pensions and healthcare from employers, the better. Businesses main area of expertise is not in pensions and healthcare, and they cannot provide these services as efficiently as if there were many different insurance companies on the market offering these services for sale, and instead the company paid you a fee for your services, and then you went out on the market…

You mean like in good, old Europe? No way!

Please don't post unsubstantive comments or foment regional flamewar here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#218

Post by walshemj » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

nguoi wrote: post #140

walshemj wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't take this the wrong way but you need to take some serious advice, DB pensions are far far better than a DC. Look at the transfer values of some DB pensions they can be worth multiple millions and no way would an individual be able to build up an equivalent amount in a DC scheame

There's no magic financial effect that makes the money going into a DB scheme worth more. The money has to come from somewhere and, in these cases, it's from companies that underestimated or ignored what the future costs would be.

You do understand that DB is a collective scheme and DC its not just you.

Your DB pension is funded by those that came before you and those coming after.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#219

Post by Clubber » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #25

Clubber wrote: post #14

I inherited the desire to buy American cars to support America workers from my Uncle would was a WWII vet. He didn't like Japanese products (he was in the Pacific theatre). I've been buying American cars for the last 20+ years and currently own a GM. I think the next one I buy will be Japanese or German and it's ironic. While I spent my money on American cars to support American workers, the American companies offsho…

Are you conflating GM with GE?

Yes. I guess it's because GM is in the news too.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#220

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #218

nguoi wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no magic financial effect that makes the money going into a DB scheme worth more. The money has to come from somewhere and, in these cases, it's from companies that underestimated or ignored what the future costs would be.

You do understand that DB is a collective scheme and DC its not just you. Your DB pension is funded by those that came before you and those coming after.

[deleted]