Joint Statement on the GNU Project • Hacker News Board

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#81

Post by wott » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:09 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #73

I personally think that Richard Stallman is both not getting fair treatment and to some extent brought this on himself. For me, the GNU project becomes much less interesting without his blog articles, public talks, etc. I had let my FSF membership lapse, was thinking of renewing, and now probably won’t. Off topic, but I enjoyed seeing the leaders of the various GNU projects listed in one place as signers of this lett…

> the leaders of the various GNU projects

The leaders of selected GNU projects who were likely to share the same opinion and sign. Others were not even informed of this initiative that kind of poses as speaking in their name.

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#82

Post by simion314 » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #58

simion314 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only seen some accusation that appeared now after 20 years , where RMS said something and some people were made uncomfortable. I agree RMS is not a sociable person but I would have preferred to see some significant "crime" , now I have the feeling that you can be kicked out from your own project if you made a stupid comment or thing in the past and the social media gets enraged by mostly FUD and exagerations of you…

If that's your concern, I recommend reading up further on people's issues with rms. It's not "some accusations that appeared after 20 years," it's 30 years of pattern. https://medium.com/@selamjie/remove-richard-stallman-appendi...

Your article is fake news, RMS did not defended Epsein and the pedophilia thing is an opinion that he changed his mind about. From what I read about this topic the legal age for sex is not topic where 95% people agree one and RMS had a different view then the majority and he was convinced to change his mind (proving he is open minded)

I did not read the rest since it probably is as fake or exaggerated as the beginning.

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#83

Post by simion314 » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:11 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #52

simion314 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only seen some accusation that appeared now after 20 years , where RMS said something and some people were made uncomfortable. I agree RMS is not a sociable person but I would have preferred to see some significant "crime" , now I have the feeling that you can be kicked out from your own project if you made a stupid comment or thing in the past and the social media gets enraged by mostly FUD and exagerations of you…

I've seen enough written about it, even by Stallman's supporters who say they've had conversations with him about these things before, to indicate his behavior has been more than just a poorly worded conversation. The existence of some folks who skew those things IMO isn't relevant when it comes to the things that I've seen that seem like believable accounts.

Some of those people that wrote against RMS are not in good relations with him so you need to consider those memories as biased.

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#84

Post by codesections » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:11 PM UTC

Smithalicious wrote: post #63

This statement makes clear to me that I can no longer trust (parts of) the GNU project to prioritize software freedom and making good software over catering to hateful lynchmobs and virtue signalling. There's no meaningful way for me to act on this current, since "boycotting" GNU does nothing to harm these bad elements and I do not contribute back to GNU. I can merely convey my profound disapproval. This is a disgrac…

> RMS is, in my view, a completely innocent man

Note that the Joint Statement does not take a position on the statements that the most recent controversy has been about. Instead, it speaks about "behavior over the years"[0]. Of course, the recent controversy doubtless played a role in bringing all this to a head, but it is possible for someone to believe both that RMS is "completely innocent" of wrongful conduct and that he has engaged in behavior that harms the cause of Free Software.

[0]: > Yet, we must also acknowledge that Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer users.

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#85

Post by DuskStar » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:11 PM UTC

dtornabene wrote: post #68

badrequest wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've whipped up quite a strawman to get angry at, do you have any proof of this conspiracy?

of course they don't. because there isn't any . These people, some of whom, like Andy Wingo and Chris Webber, have been doing this for well over a decade. its asinine.

Why does "they've been doing this for a decade" mean "they aren't trying to oust major free software figures"?

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#86

Post by bitwize » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:12 PM UTC

dtornabene wrote: post #64

bitwize wrote: post #15

If I believed for a second that any successor candidate to lead the GNU project gave as much of a fuck about software and personal freedom as Stallman did/does, I might support them. My confidence that this will transpire, however, is not high.

I can tell you for a fact that Chris Webber, one of the signers on that list, does indeed give a fuck about personal freedom as much as stallman does. Indeed it is precisely because these people believe in such freedom that they are standing up for the women who no one has chosen to listen to and its beyond gross the reaction of every fool who's never so much as filed a bug report or attended a meeting spewing out ha…

I really don't hate these people, especially not Andy Wingo. But if the likes of him or Chris Webber were to assume leadership of the GNU project, they would be one minor slip-up away from being purged themselves.

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#87

Post by shadowgovt » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:12 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #82

shadowgovt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's your concern, I recommend reading up further on people's issues with rms. It's not "some accusations that appeared after 20 years," it's 30 years of pattern. https://medium.com/@selamjie/remove-richard-stallman-appendi...

Your article is fake news, RMS did not defended Epsein and the pedophilia thing is an opinion that he changed his mind about. From what I read about this topic the legal age for sex is not topic where 95% people agree one and RMS had a different view then the majority and he was convinced to change his mind (proving he is open minded) I did not read the rest since it probably is as fake or exaggerated as the beginnin…

If you didn't read it, you failed to read the part about "Richard Stallman has been contributing to a negative environment for women at MIT for over thirty years," with citations.

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#88

Post by DuskStar » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #19

kellenmurphy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Uncompromising" and "friendly" are not terms that one typically finds together.

We can be friendly without having to compromise freedom. We don't have to be friendly to those who would want to use our software to take freedom away from others. We should be friendly to everyone who wants to use our software freely, regardless of their skill level. My view is that GNU should be working towards making sure we can get our software into as many people as possible by giving it an attractive interface,…

> We don't have to be friendly to those who would want to use our software to take freedom away from others. We should be friendly to everyone who wants to use our software freely, regardless of their skill level.

"We should be friendly, unless we don't like the people using our software"

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#89

Post by wott » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #19

kellenmurphy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Uncompromising" and "friendly" are not terms that one typically finds together.

We can be friendly without having to compromise freedom. We don't have to be friendly to those who would want to use our software to take freedom away from others. We should be friendly to everyone who wants to use our software freely, regardless of their skill level. My view is that GNU should be working towards making sure we can get our software into as many people as possible by giving it an attractive interface,…

And your first friendly act is to 'friendly' take control of the organisation someone else built to host you. That opens a whole perspective of refreshing friendlyism.

Re: Joint Statement on the GNU Project

#90

Post by simion314 » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

badrequest wrote: post #50

bitwize wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when it's your head that Sarah Mei and Sage Sharp are calling for, will you hold the line?

They'll never call for my head because I wouldn't suggest that minor-aged victims of sexual assault could have been engaging consensually.

But you will maybe have an unpopular opinion in private and is leaked to the public(like it happened with Mozilla CEO) or you used some bad words 20 years ago or made someone uncomfortable and they will remeber it tomorrow.