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For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

nytimes.com

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Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#291

Post by panopticon »

swebs wrote: post #159
tartoran wrote: post #3

That is correct, the rich don't pay any taxes at all (whenever the can). The was a recent thread on HN regarding tax audits [0]. What I got from that is that the IRS cannot afford to audit the rich because their taxes are complicated and they don't have enough resources to do so. They choose to audit the poor instead because, it is simpler.. link [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21176705

Maybe its time we start considering the Fair Tax plan again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax

Consumption is a smaller percentage of wealthy household incomes, and that plan doesn't do anything to address equity or other forms of lucrative wealth generation.

I don't agree with that definition of "fair", and I think it would further exacerbate wealth inequality.

Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#292

Post by godelski »

newen wrote: post #128
makomk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful. The two articles rely on vastly different cherry-picked definitions of who counts as rich, and neither claim is even remotely true anymore if you use the other definition. The top 1% are indeed audited at about the same rate as the working poor, but they also pay higher taxes than everyone else. This NYT article on the other hand picks out the top 400, who apparently pay lower taxes but are much more aggress…

Lower tax rates, not necessarily lower taxes.

This is a very important point. Tax rates and taxes are very different.

We have a marginal tax system so effective rates should be higher for those that make more. Them paying lower tax rates (like Buffet said) is them having more loopholes in the system.

Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#293

Post by zarro »

empath75 wrote: post #264
zarro wrote: post #259

I think this “vilify the rich minority” mentality that’s so popular these days is destructive in the fact that the people that popularize this, see it as a path of least resistance to getting subsidized at the expense of the rich, instead of working toward improving themselves and the value of the products/services they provide so that they may, in return, purchase valuable services for themselves. In the end when th…

What about all those services like public education, roads, the military, police force, federally funded research, societal stability and so on that government provides which enabled those wealthy people to gain and maintain their wealth to begin with. And what services did Donald Trump Jr and Ivanka Trump provide the world, or all the other heirs and heiresses of vast fortunes who earned it by virtue of being the sc…

The argument is, all those services and much more could be provided for privately much more efficiently.

Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#294

Post by troupe »

BuckRogers wrote: post #203

Earned-income (labor) shouldn't be taxed at all. It seems very unjust to tax something that is not a profit, such as a job. We aren't taxed when we trade two pineapples for four pears, so why is trading our time/effort for money any different? It's a scam. Though property taxes are likely a bigger scam. With that we're already in a post-ownership society. You never escape rent, never own anything, which is truly unfa…

> We aren't taxed when we trade two pineapples for four pears, so why is trading our time/effort for money any different?

Actually you are taxed on trades.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/four-things-you-should-know-if-...

Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#295

Post by [deleted] »

tartoran wrote: post #3

That is correct, the rich don't pay any taxes at all (whenever the can). The was a recent thread on HN regarding tax audits [0]. What I got from that is that the IRS cannot afford to audit the rich because their taxes are complicated and they don't have enough resources to do so. They choose to audit the poor instead because, it is simpler.. link [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21176705

[deleted]

Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#296

Post by ajslater »

ggreer wrote: post #36
Synaesthesia wrote: post #5

There’s so much that could be done if we taxed the ultra rich and huge corporations just a little bit more, and more effectively.

They would just renounce their US citizenship and move to a country with lower taxes. That’s what Eduardo Saverin did.

The existing ultra-wealthy are one problem, and tricky.

Systemically preventing oligarchs and aristocrats from arising in the future is another.

Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#297

Post by microcolonel »

> Since then, taxes that hit the wealthiest the hardest — like the estate tax and corporate tax — have plummeted.

The corporate tax hits everyone, and it hasn't "plummeted", it was reduced all at once in one year, to a still extremely high level (from my Canadian perspective).

They go to all this effort to make a case that the effective rates paid by people with extremely high incomes are often slightly lower than those paid by people with still-very-high incomes... then they blame the marginal rate!

This article is a mess, the juxtaposition of excellent, valid observations, and contradictory filler is astonishing.

Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#298

Post by swebs »

astrodust wrote: post #227
swebs wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe its time we start considering the Fair Tax plan again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax

Ah, yes, the "tax the living hell out of the working poor" tax plan.

You must be thinking of something else. The effective tax rate is negative for the poor due to the basic income provided.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_the_FairTax_bu...

Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#299

Post by meerita »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #4
slashdev wrote: post #2

Wow, that chart shows tax rates on the wealthy dropping from 70% to 23% in the last 70 years. Now probably 70% was too socialist and may not fly in a globalised world where is a lot easier to move to a lower tax country or state (I'd move if I had to pay that.) But this seems ridiculously tilted to the other extreme now. Edit: I don't understand the objections to my comment. If you have a problem with the data behind…

[flagged]

No, workers don't own anything in Socialist States. In Socialism, it is the State that owns everything and obligate the workers to work. You cannot create any business in Socialist states due the nature of the abolition of private property. You cannot choose what to work, it's the State who assign you that.

Re: For the first time on record, the 400 wealthiest Americans paid a lower tax rate

#300

Post by gamerboy »

Rich people avoid taxes by converting their income into capital gains, this is often done using not talking big salaries but keeping money in the business

Secondly, rich people often create network of companies where on company is pending to friend's company and some other friends company is lending to your company - using this, you improve credit score of whole network and you can lend harder public money. Then you can simply use it as leverage, this is creating money from thin air.

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