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Preparing for 25 Years

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Re: Preparing for 25 Years

#31

Post by bachmeier »

davewiner wrote: post #26
kick wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person isn't trolling, though. It's a fun anecdote that makes you both seem more human, and you didn't come across as a dick in it. EDIT: For the record, most of us probably revere your blog.

Here's how this works. Imagine you don't recall this event. And then he says about you what he said about me (I don't remember the words, and I don't want to, but sounded like I blew my top). Now further imagine that having lived with yourself a long time, you know that isn't how you react to things like that. How would you feel? You're only telling me how you feel. But you're forgetting that I am not you. And I got…

That's messed up. Nobody should have to put up with that. The only thing I knew about you before this was your history of outliners http://davewiner.userland.com/outlinersProgramming It was more interesting than it should have been.

Re: Preparing for 25 Years

#32

Post by davewiner »

Kye wrote: post #27
davewiner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how this works. Imagine you don't recall this event. And then he says about you what he said about me (I don't remember the words, and I don't want to, but sounded like I blew my top). Now further imagine that having lived with yourself a long time, you know that isn't how you react to things like that. How would you feel? You're only telling me how you feel. But you're forgetting that I am not you. And I got…

I read a good post on this subject: https://medium.com/@soatok/friendship-and-the-furry-fandom-4... People who are well-known are people a lot of people want to get to know , but they remain human with human limitations and human priorities. I've found the best way to get in touch with well-known people is to have a genuine interest in talking to them about mutual interests.

And talk to them like they were human beings, which they are. ;-)

Re: Preparing for 25 Years

#33

Post by [deleted] »

kragen wrote: post #28
davewiner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how this works. Imagine you don't recall this event. And then he says about you what he said about me (I don't remember the words, and I don't want to, but sounded like I blew my top). Now further imagine that having lived with yourself a long time, you know that isn't how you react to things like that. How would you feel? You're only telling me how you feel. But you're forgetting that I am not you. And I got…

> And then he says about you what he said about me (I don't remember the words, and I don't want to, but sounded like I blew my top). Now further imagine that having lived with yourself a long time, you know that isn't how you react to things like that. Dude, that is definitely a common reaction on your part. You're famous for flipping out at people. Anyone who read your blog for any length of time saw it happen onli…

[deleted]

Re: Preparing for 25 Years

#35

Post by thaumasiotes »

davewiner wrote: post #23
latchkey wrote: post #3

Here is a Dave story... I once wrote an early web server using his Frontier Scripting platform which ended up serving up a large corporate website that my company built. Crazy early days of the web. So, I got to 'know' Dave a bit online. One time I was at a bar (that no longer exists) in San Francisco at some MacWorld event in the 90's and Dave showed up. He and I had previously had some emails back and forth that we…

I like this in your profile -- "Important: If you are looking at this profile because you thought something I posted was wrong, dismissive, disrespectful, douchebaggish, what have you, I would really like to hear from you so that I could understand how you got that impression. I won't get mad, I won't "retaliate" I just want to hear what you have to say. It is important to me to communicate clearly and if something I…

Wow.

latchkey's story presents himself as being in the wrong, and presents you as overreacting. Then he closes with an apology.

Your response makes it pretty clear that you do indeed match the description of you provided in latchkey's post.

Re: Preparing for 25 Years

#36

Post by onli »

davewiner wrote: post #23
latchkey wrote: post #3

Here is a Dave story... I once wrote an early web server using his Frontier Scripting platform which ended up serving up a large corporate website that my company built. Crazy early days of the web. So, I got to 'know' Dave a bit online. One time I was at a bar (that no longer exists) in San Francisco at some MacWorld event in the 90's and Dave showed up. He and I had previously had some emails back and forth that we…

I like this in your profile -- "Important: If you are looking at this profile because you thought something I posted was wrong, dismissive, disrespectful, douchebaggish, what have you, I would really like to hear from you so that I could understand how you got that impression. I won't get mad, I won't "retaliate" I just want to hear what you have to say. It is important to me to communicate clearly and if something I…

> Anyway this is par for the course of Hacker News. The troll post always is highest ranked.

:( HN is the platform on the net where you will read "RSS should be used more" and "Thanks Dave Winer for this great tech" most often. And here you have a comment of someone with no history of trolling (according to his most recent posts at least) who made himself very small ("I was an idiot") and apologized to you, and you insult not only him, but the whole platform.

Dave, you don't know me, but a lot of people here read you. And so many of the developers here build software with technology you like (i.e. I implemented a RSS feed for my blog software, a feed reader [with opml import!], a rss polling and pushing infrastructure, and a RSS focused SaaS pipes revival site) and share some of your ideals. Is it really necessary to be antagonistic to all of us? How is this a winning strategy?

And assume for a moment latchkeys story is genuine. You don't remember it, but so what, it was 25 years ago and you said yourself you had lots of bad interactions at that time. I'd be very surprised if some idiot kid acting badly is something you would remember. Your reaction now to his public apology would be devastating.

From your second comment:

> His memory of me, a guy who he says created software that he used and liked, is the time he treated me like an object.

To me it reads like he treated you like one of his friends, which obviously was a bad idea if you have a different age and cultural background, besides not sharing this strange feeling of knowing someone because you read his blogs for years, who of course never realized you exist.

Re: Preparing for 25 Years

#37

Post by dimator »

davewiner wrote: post #20
chrisfinazzo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his dust up with Google re HTTPS rubbed a bunch of people the wrong way. On one level, he's of an age where good intent was assumed on the web, so security wasn't a big concern. (On that note, ask John Siracusa how it felt to have TTYs @ BU be "world-writable" in 1993) On the other hand, that world is largely gone and the web is much more fraught with peril these days.

In case anyone is wondering, this is the FAQ on Google and HTTP. http://this.how/googleAndHttp As far as I know they've never responded.

Firefox doesn't make it's decisions based on the same criteria as Google, but: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2019/07/18/still-not-using-...

What are your thoughts on that?

Re: Preparing for 25 Years

#38

Post by wwarner »

davewiner wrote: post #20
chrisfinazzo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his dust up with Google re HTTPS rubbed a bunch of people the wrong way. On one level, he's of an age where good intent was assumed on the web, so security wasn't a big concern. (On that note, ask John Siracusa how it felt to have TTYs @ BU be "world-writable" in 1993) On the other hand, that world is largely gone and the web is much more fraught with peril these days.

In case anyone is wondering, this is the FAQ on Google and HTTP. http://this.how/googleAndHttp As far as I know they've never responded.

Great writeup!

Re: Preparing for 25 Years

#40

Post by davewiner »

dimator wrote: post #37
davewiner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case anyone is wondering, this is the FAQ on Google and HTTP. http://this.how/googleAndHttp As far as I know they've never responded.

Firefox doesn't make it's decisions based on the same criteria as Google, but: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2019/07/18/still-not-using-... What are your thoughts on that?

I think this is the problem with letting the tech industry take ownership of open formats and protocols.
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