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GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

businessinsider.com

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Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#201

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Faark wrote: post #163
dx87 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if someone refuses to pay? Do they get a fine that's higher than what the cost of paying for healthcare would have been?

Its send to collections. So you're only fine if you are poor enough to not have anything they can take from you. And at that point you are eligible for gov support to your healthcare bill anyway. Here in germany you can actually kind of get away with not paying for a while when not consuming. But coverage has to be continuous, so if you need insurance since you want to go to the doctor a few years down the line, you…

Hospitals already charge higher rates to those without insurance because of those payers high default rate. Collections is expensive, and they might not be able to collect anything at the end, so they price that risk into the prices.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#202

Post by seanmcdirmid »

hocuspocus wrote: post #157
dx87 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if someone refuses to pay? Do they get a fine that's higher than what the cost of paying for healthcare would have been?

Here in Switzerland if you don't give proof of insurance the state will pick one for you. Then if you don't pay, it's like with any other bill, you'll get into troubles really quick.

And if you are a foreigner, you have to provide proof of insurance when you renew your residence permit at the control de habitant.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#203

Post by mankyd »

Someone1234 wrote: post #125
mankyd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that what American health insurance companies are?

Kinda yes. But it isn't competitive when you cannot even pick your own health insurance company nor see prices for medical care (or see what is in/out of network). Splitting employers from health insurance is one of several required changes that needs to happen before the supposed hand of capitalism can allow the market to get healthier. I have no idea if it would work, but the status quo is so unhealthy at the very…

>But it isn't competitive when you cannot even pick your own health insurance company

There's plenty of employers that don't offer healthcare, and you are not obligated to take it if your employer does offer it. You can always buy your own health insurance.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#204

Post by seanmcdirmid »

hocuspocus wrote: post #142
chooseaname wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love for this to happen. But I see a couple blockers. 1) It is some sort of badge of honor to get a "job with benefits". 2) What if more people decide to not get healthcare? If your job gives it to you and you "only" have to pay a few hundred a month for your family, you are more likely to get it than if you payed everything out of pocket each month (even if your compensation increased). People would see all…

1) Employers could still cover the premium as a benefit. You'd just get to choose how and where to use the money. 2) Make it truly mandatory like in all developed countries.

In Switzerland, employers don’t cover premiums, and premiums are paid post tax anyways. The USA is weird because employer provided health insurance is paid pre tax while individual policies are paid with post tax money (unless your expenses hit 10% of income).

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#205

Post by ScottFree »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #192
throebd wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the free healthcare include only US citizens, all people who live in US, or everyone who comes to US on holiday? If you want more affordable healthcare, you should make it cheaper, not force other people to pay overpriced bills for random strangers.

Other countries have already figured this out. And no one ever calls it “free healthcare” except for a few naive American libertarians. They don’t provide free healthcare, and if you aren’t in the system (and paying via taxes or otherwise covered via tax revenue redistribution), you’ll get a bill one way or the other (unless there is an agreement between two socialized health systems).

> Other countries have already figured this out.

None of those countries are the size of the US. Just like in Physics, you can't expect a 1/10th scale model to behave the same as the life sized version.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#206

Post by Someone1234 »

mankyd wrote: post #203
Someone1234 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda yes. But it isn't competitive when you cannot even pick your own health insurance company nor see prices for medical care (or see what is in/out of network). Splitting employers from health insurance is one of several required changes that needs to happen before the supposed hand of capitalism can allow the market to get healthier. I have no idea if it would work, but the status quo is so unhealthy at the very…

>But it isn't competitive when you cannot even pick your own health insurance company There's plenty of employers that don't offer healthcare, and you are not obligated to take it if your employer does offer it. You can always buy your own health insurance.

And pay substantially more for the same product. The individual insurance marketplace isn't competitive, plus you're also giving the federal government a free loan (since employer insurance is pre-tax dollars, individual plans get a refund after the tax return).

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#207

Post by FireBeyond »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #183
chooseaname wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to meet a single person who hasn't enthusiastically agreed that we should separate healthcare from employment. The reluctance comes when nobody has any idea what we're going to replace it with. Sadly, I have, and it is invariably from people who basically say those who don't work don't deserve healthcare. It is disturbing to hear people say this. They don't want to "pay" for someone else's healthcare. Th…

"They don't want to "pay" for someone else's healthcare. They don't get that they already are." Curiosity, because you seem to have first hand experience and I do not- what happens when you present that they already are paying for peoples' healthcare?

They state that they shouldn't be, and that the sooner the "government" stops that, the better off they think they'll be, like they imagine that their paycheck will rise directly and imminently as a result.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#208

Post by rumanator »

hocuspocus wrote: post #177
rumanator wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it would be far simpler and easier for everyone if the state provided healthcare services paid by everyone through taxes.

Yes of course, but that's beyond the point. Americans cannot argue that mandatory healthcare couldn't work in a multi-payer, private system.

It really depends on your definition of "work". Being forced to subscribe to a paid service is not the same as getting access to healthcare. Your examples only show that if a state resorts to authoritarian measures then it can force everyone to subscribe to a paid service.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#209

Post by [deleted] »

jogjayr wrote: post #175
froindt wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It was interesting to see this all come up with union negotiations. The union's push against switching to a 401k was that it puts them at risk when the market performs poorly. Unfortunately from a company standpoint, when the market goes down, their required pension contributions go up, a real bind in cash when you need it most. There's more politics involved - like the automotive unions giving up numerous r…

> The administration costs of 401k's make it more challenging for small companies to offer. It's not at all clear to me that 401Ks need to exist when we already have IRAs. Why not just increase the contribution limits on traditional IRAs to 401K levels? It gives everyone access to the same savings options, employees aren't tied to a single 401K provider that can gouge them on fees, employers don't have to administer…

[deleted]

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#210

Post by FireBeyond »

slg wrote: post #165
Someone1234 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That $2.5M isn't even half of their compensation. Why did you pick the lowest figure in the article to make this argument?

So double it or even triple it. You could redistribute it all among the 20k people impacted and we are till only talking about $20 - $30 per month. That would certainly help people, but it isn't going to by life changing money. CEO pay seems like a constant red herring. If we care about inequality, we are probably better off focusing our attention on our tax system (this story [1] is also on the front page of HN at t…

Why double or triple it? His actual guaranteed package is closer to $68MM[1], which is closer to 20x or 30x.

[1] with the potential to hit $250MM.

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