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Introduction to Gnome 3

gnome3.org

41–50 of 79 posts

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#41
post #37
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People like to beat up on MS a lot, but the differences between the Windows 7 GUI (or iOS GUI) and Gnome 3 really highlight the disadvantage that a bunch of spare-time developers who say to themselves, "well, I think our users will like text truncation, let's throw it in tomorrow!" are at versus a big company with millions to spend on thoughtful UI design, graphics, research, and focus groups. Windows 7 has its probl…

> Gnome 3 really highlight the disadvantage that a bunch of spare-time developers You do realize you are criticizing the topmost user interface details of a theme of an extensively themable early release. I think those "spare-time developers" have been focusing their attention on the API changes that the Gnome 2 to 3 transition impose and the new concepts introduced by the shell. The core seems very good. What you co…

If they didn't want to invite criticism, they shouldn't have release screenshots of a product they don't want criticism of, complete with breathless captions about "beauty" and "usability."

Furthermore, I have better things to do with my time than spend time mucking around with configuration files and theme settings. Back in high school I had the time and inclination, and in fact I did so; now that I run a business, I'd rather spend that time doing actual development. Not to mention the moms and grandmas of the world who don't even know what a theme is. I, and they, need a UI that just works out of the box.

And finally, just about every computer that is responsible for my internet access runs on top of software written by large corporations who have hired people to develop for open source bodies. Let's not forget that it's for-profit companies with full-time programmers like Red Hat, Canonical, IBM, Intel, etc. that are more than partly responsible for the relatively wide enterprise (and desktop!) adoption of Linux today.

I'm not out to bash Gnome, Linux, or open source; I use Ubuntu on my work laptop every day. I criticize out of the desire to see the open source movement develop something better, and that means not patting everyone on the back just for "working hard." It's precisely that kind of "gold star for effort" attitude that lets crappy software exist.

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#42
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The developers absolutely deserve to be applauded for their work, but declaring it as "simply beautiful" is almost laughable. I think that it's actually quite ugly. And even if you disagree, I don't think it's fair to call your own work beautiful unless you've proven that the overwhelming majority consistently enjoys your aesthetic.

For a lot of people, Justin Bieber is a great musician. Popularity is not a trustworthy indicator of artistic merit.

Popularity is not a trustworthy indicator of artistic merit.

How else would you define it?

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#43
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truncation like that also happens on the Mac when the Finder's grid spacing is set too tight. They may have overlooked it for the screenshot.

I'm not criticizing truncation. You need to do it on long names. I'm saying it looks like the designers of the GNOME UI are using truncation as a quick fix for a flawed design. Besides, truncation in OS X is much much smarter: http://i.imgur.com/MN3Q2.png Notice how the tracking (spacing between letters) in the first item gets tightened to make it fit? It looks a little squished, but it's much preferable to reading d…

> I'm not criticizing truncation. You need to do it on long names. I'm saying it looks like the designers of the GNOME UI are using truncation as a quick fix for a flawed design.

Yeah, I thought it looked pretty obvious because it was so bad it just hadn't been gotten to.

While I can't articulate on whether pango's ellipsizing is as smart as Apple's, it should be as simple as changing a single property from PANGO_ELLIPSIZE_END to PANGO_ELLIPSIZE_MIDDLE.

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#44
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truncation like that also happens on the Mac when the Finder's grid spacing is set too tight. They may have overlooked it for the screenshot.

I'm not criticizing truncation. You need to do it on long names. I'm saying it looks like the designers of the GNOME UI are using truncation as a quick fix for a flawed design. Besides, truncation in OS X is much much smarter: http://i.imgur.com/MN3Q2.png Notice how the tracking (spacing between letters) in the first item gets tightened to make it fit? It looks a little squished, but it's much preferable to reading d…

Also, if you do this on the desktop or in the finder with grid/icon view, OSX will word-wrap for a couple notches before trying to "middle-truncate". Loss of information is their last resort.

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#45
post #41
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gnome 3 really highlight the disadvantage that a bunch of spare-time developers You do realize you are criticizing the topmost user interface details of a theme of an extensively themable early release. I think those "spare-time developers" have been focusing their attention on the API changes that the Gnome 2 to 3 transition impose and the new concepts introduced by the shell. The core seems very good. What you co…

If they didn't want to invite criticism, they shouldn't have release screenshots of a product they don't want criticism of, complete with breathless captions about "beauty" and "usability." Furthermore, I have better things to do with my time than spend time mucking around with configuration files and theme settings. Back in high school I had the time and inclination, and in fact I did so; now that I run a business,…

> If they didn't want to invite criticism, they shouldn't have release screenshots of a product they don't want criticism of.

I am sure this will be a learning experience. It's alpha software, after all, and it is released in order to allow people to learn what works and what doesn't in the real world. As usual, with open-source, if you decide to use Gnome Shell right now, or in April, you'll be running the bleeding edge. I would say that, if you want to run it as stable software, you should wait until October. Open-source is developed in the open, as it invites intelligent criticism and grows stronger with it.

> Furthermore, I have better things to do with my time than spend time mucking around with configuration files and theme settings

Unless you want to design themes, you are not supposed to do that. I rarely do. I think I haven't done that since 2003 or so, and I was really going for a full customized desktop at the time. I did it because I wanted to do it.

> And finally, just about every computer that is responsible for my internet access runs on top of software written by large corporations who have hired people to develop for open source bodies.

I would like to point out a lot of Gnome has also been developed by a lot of full-time employees of for-profit companies too. It was you who called them "spare-time developers". I am not sure how it will play out with Novell's demise, but I trust other companies, like Red Hat and Canonical can chip in if needed.

> I'm not out to bash Gnome, Linux, or open source

I then certainly misread your post. I didn't realize you meant "spare-time developers" as a compliment. My bad. I am sure open-source has a lot to gain from the criticism of a bunch of spare-time experts.

Meant as a compliment, of course.

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#46
post #42
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a lot of people, Justin Bieber is a great musician. Popularity is not a trustworthy indicator of artistic merit.

Popularity is not a trustworthy indicator of artistic merit. How else would you define it?

Artistic quality is one of those things that defy definition. It may be that it's aesthetically pleasing, or it may be that its design communicate some other inner quality or a completely different idea. It may be that the inner quality, in itself, has some aesthetic quality, much like a beautiful mathematical proof.

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#47
post #42
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a lot of people, Justin Bieber is a great musician. Popularity is not a trustworthy indicator of artistic merit.

Popularity is not a trustworthy indicator of artistic merit. How else would you define it?

Read 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' Cliched as it might seem now, it address the abstract and almost mind-destroying properties of quality as well as anything can.

Short answer: The feeling of high quality occurs when perception exceeds expectation; the feeling of low quality occurs when perception does not meet expectation (wikipedia).

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#48

Not that I want to beat up on a open source project, but for a desktop environment focused on ease of use, there are some very odd things overlooked. 1. How am I supposed to know what these icons do? Why even title them? https://img.skitch.com/20110118-biweei4eyuey217fisi7ks2d9f.p... 2. Eight of the eleven icons in the dock have significant title clipping. Did no one notice this? https://img.skitch.com/20110118-e1ykw…

I think the clipping might be fixed. I don't see any in the dash (GNOME's term for the dock) or the application picker in the screenshot at http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design?action=AttachFile&#3...

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#49
post #45
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they didn't want to invite criticism, they shouldn't have release screenshots of a product they don't want criticism of, complete with breathless captions about "beauty" and "usability." Furthermore, I have better things to do with my time than spend time mucking around with configuration files and theme settings. Back in high school I had the time and inclination, and in fact I did so; now that I run a business,…

> If they didn't want to invite criticism, they shouldn't have release screenshots of a product they don't want criticism of. I am sure this will be a learning experience. It's alpha software, after all, and it is released in order to allow people to learn what works and what doesn't in the real world. As usual, with open-source, if you decide to use Gnome Shell right now, or in April, you'll be running the bleeding…

http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/Red-Hat-the-Top-...

"The vast majority (70 percent) of contributors work on the project on their spare time, while an additional 20 percent of contributors do so on both a paid and voluntary basis."

Adding the percentages of the top 5 corporate contributors adds up to just over a third of contributions from ostensibly full-time developers.

So it appears to be just a fact that people are developing this in their spare time. That doesn't mean they're less competent than paid developers; of course not. It simply means that compared to a big company, like MS or Apple, they just don't have the same level of cash money resources to hire the right kinds of people--UI design experts--and buy the right kinds of feedback--real-life user testing, focus groups--that big companies do. And that very much shows in these screenshots.

Alpha or not, criticism is essential for furthering the project. If everyone just sat around and said "whew, lots of hard work, good job guys!" to whatever crap any OSS dev produced, OSS would never progress. I want Gnome 3 to be better because I use Gnome every day!

Re: Introduction to Gnome 3

#50
post #20

Not that I want to beat up on a open source project, but for a desktop environment focused on ease of use, there are some very odd things overlooked. 1. How am I supposed to know what these icons do? Why even title them? https://img.skitch.com/20110118-biweei4eyuey217fisi7ks2d9f.p... 2. Eight of the eleven icons in the dock have significant title clipping. Did no one notice this? https://img.skitch.com/20110118-e1ykw…

People like to beat up on MS a lot, but the differences between the Windows 7 GUI (or iOS GUI) and Gnome 3 really highlight the disadvantage that a bunch of spare-time developers who say to themselves, "well, I think our users will like text truncation, let's throw it in tomorrow!" are at versus a big company with millions to spend on thoughtful UI design, graphics, research, and focus groups. Windows 7 has its probl…

One interesting thing about the Gnome Shell design process is that it has been very open and responsive. Although there was a heavy focus on creating design principles up front, the actual design has evolved a lot over the few years that the project has been active. The overview of the current design at http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design has many relevant links that you can explore if you're interested.

I know there are plans for usability testing, but I don't know how they have progressed since this blog post http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/gnome-shell-usability...

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