Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded • Hacker News Board

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#71

Post by horsawlarway » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:42 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #49

snowwrestler wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it very hard to imagine a human civilization on Mars being self-sufficient. Getting there is not the hard part. The ecology of self-sufficiency is not something we understand currently, even on Earth.

Indeed. If we were serious about colonizing mars we should first colonize portions of the earth that are currently uninhabitable (self-sufficiently). They all are much easier to get to and have significantly more favorable conditions than Mars, but for some reason no one tries to make the Arctic self-sustaining or wants to build a deep ocean colony.

Why, though?

It seems to me that the long term payoff of colonizing Mars is huge.

The long term payoff of colonizing remote and inhospitable areas on earth is many, many orders of magnitude lower.

I can maybe rationalize that effort if we simply assume that those areas are similar enough to Mars that the experience and technology developed while doing it could be applied effectively.

But I'm not really convinced that most of that experience will transfer - The requirements to make a self-sustaining ocean colony or artic colony are wildly different from the tools and experience we'll need for Mars. At best we gain some general insights, but we'd still have to spend enormous resources developing the right tech and tools for Mars.

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#72

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:46 PM UTC

a_t48 wrote: post #2

Does 3.5M years ago count as “not long ago” in astronomy time scales?

The Milky Way is ~150,000 - 250,000 light years across, and rotates -- call it a galactic year -- once every 240 million years. At that scale, 3.5 million years would be like about 5 days relative to Earth's year.

So: earlier this week, more or less.

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#73

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:48 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #9

a_t48 wrote: post #2

Does 3.5M years ago count as “not long ago” in astronomy time scales?

In cosmological terms, it's more like "earlier today". Our ancestors were already walking around, talking to black monoliths and crushing skulls by then.

The Krell, on the other hand, were near the peak of their development.

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#74

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

Intermernet wrote: post #20

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so ... wild guess 37 years * 365 days = 13,500 days universe has existed for 13.5 billion years So each day in a middle aged life is 1 million of the universe's years. I like it ! :-) * This flare: Last Friday * Dinosaur extinction: 3rd of August * Pangea breaks apart: about Valentines day * Earth formed: June 2007 * Universe Born: 1982 Of course this means the Universe would have listened to Flock Of Seagulls as a k…

Dammit, I'm older than the universe. There's a happy thought.

"When I was born, time didn't exist."

https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2b4kpg/conspir...

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#75

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

horsawlarway wrote: post #71

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. If we were serious about colonizing mars we should first colonize portions of the earth that are currently uninhabitable (self-sufficiently). They all are much easier to get to and have significantly more favorable conditions than Mars, but for some reason no one tries to make the Arctic self-sustaining or wants to build a deep ocean colony.

Why, though? It seems to me that the long term payoff of colonizing Mars is huge. The long term payoff of colonizing remote and inhospitable areas on earth is many, many orders of magnitude lower. I can maybe rationalize that effort if we simply assume that those areas are similar enough to Mars that the experience and technology developed while doing it could be applied effectively. But I'm not really convinced that…

The payoff for Mars is, I think, overrated. The payoff of learning how to colonize all kinds of different environments is more valuable, and it is easier to start with the ones close by than the one's so far away we've only ever sent probes.

Doing these things are still ludicrously ambitious projects, and yet colonizing Mars is at least an order of magnitude more ambitious.

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#76

Post by tejtm » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 4:50 PM UTC

Yuval_Halevi wrote: post #50

So basically we are not on the way of bursts exploding from the poles of the center, we are perpendicular to the bursts trajectory?

normally

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#77

Post by jandrese » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

ljf wrote: post #41

FrameworkFred wrote: post #35

Given that we're able to aim telescopes at things that are billions of light years away, I wonder how close we are to being able to see the reflection of such a thing when it actually happens on some celestial body 3.5 million light years away.

I remember as a child thinking I had fixed time travel (in a very limited sense) when I wondered why we didn't just stick a bunch of mirrors far far away, and then aim them back at the earth and use telescopes to look back at the dinosaurs etc. While that wouldn't work for heaps of reasons, I like your idea. I guess the issue would be discerning 'when' such a thing happened, and finding the right item to look back at…

Ignoring the problems with resolution, the big issue with this is you would need FTL travel to position the mirrors ahead of the light.

And this in turn is one of the big reasons why FTL is probably impossible: It is in essence time travel.

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#78

Post by SimbaOnSteroids » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 5:04 PM UTC

frogpelt wrote: post #67

dwoozle wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Larry Niven is still relevant while Millard Fillmore is not.

And yet few have ever heard this Larry while Millard Fillmore maintains the distinction of being the president with the coolest name. If only Spiro T. Agnew would have made it.

Larry Niven's most famous work Ringworld, inspired both of the massively popular games Magic the Gathering, and Halo: Combat Evolved.

I suspect that Niven and Fillmore have roughly equal name recognition, though, simply by the nature that Niven is still alive, and appears to be more consequential long term.

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#79

Post by Stratoscope » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

vonseel wrote: post #56

simonh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one of Niven's short stories an alien corporation hires a Human pilot to fly to the galactic core. It's a publicity stunt to demonstrate the speed and range of a new FTL drive. When he gets close to the core, his ship is almost fried by the radiation wave front coming from a chain reaction explosion of suns in the galactic core. This drives events in many of Niven's later stories. The devastation won't reach 'Know…

While these books sound interesting, “amazing and incredibly influential achievement” sounds more like something someone might say about a President than a sci-fi author.

I can only speak for myself, but Larry Niven's wonderfully imaginative stories have influenced my thinking more than any president ever did.

Re: Not long ago, the center of the Milky Way exploded

#80

Post by NohatCoder » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 5:26 PM UTC

horsawlarway wrote: post #71

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. If we were serious about colonizing mars we should first colonize portions of the earth that are currently uninhabitable (self-sufficiently). They all are much easier to get to and have significantly more favorable conditions than Mars, but for some reason no one tries to make the Arctic self-sustaining or wants to build a deep ocean colony.

Why, though? It seems to me that the long term payoff of colonizing Mars is huge. The long term payoff of colonizing remote and inhospitable areas on earth is many, many orders of magnitude lower. I can maybe rationalize that effort if we simply assume that those areas are similar enough to Mars that the experience and technology developed while doing it could be applied effectively. But I'm not really convinced that…

Experiments on Mars cost way more, and small mistakes are likely to destroy the whole colony. Anything we can learn on Earth is much easier to learn here.