GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees • Hacker News Board

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#141

Post by mercutio2 » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:17 PM UTC

golover721 wrote: post #38

matthewaveryusa wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if this is legal or not, but this is definitely why I think the 401k/private saving model is the best. It's a lot easier for governments/corps to change the payout of a system they run vs. clawing money away from an account you own. That being said there should be a minimum safety net for those that don't have the diligence to save by their own accord.

Sadly companies never really have contributed much to employee 401ks which was one of the main selling points when being offered as an alternative to pensions. Employees are very lucky if employers contribute 50% of their contributions (which would would be a max possible of $9500 match this year). And usually it’s significantly less. In 2019 employers are allowed to contribute up to $36000. No company I have heard o…

Many (perhaps not most? I haven’t researched broadly) large companies offer 100% match for 401k contributions, up to 6% of your salary.

If you say the denizens of the companies I’ve worked at are all very lucky, I won’t disagree, but it’s surprising to hear this is uncommon.

EDIT: Or perhaps your percentages are (unusually, for US conversations about 401k contributions) referring to total outlay, by which standard a 100% match is a company covering 50% of the total outlay? But in that case the limit is no where near $9500, perhaps you were missing a 1 in front? The max employee contribution to a 401k was $18,500 in 2018...

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#142

Post by hocuspocus » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:18 PM UTC

chooseaname wrote: post #118

zarro wrote: post #85

I really think that the sooner we can separate out pensions and healthcare from employers, the better. Businesses main area of expertise is not in pensions and healthcare, and they cannot provide these services as efficiently as if there were many different insurance companies on the market offering these services for sale, and instead the company paid you a fee for your services, and then you went out on the market…

I would love for this to happen. But I see a couple blockers. 1) It is some sort of badge of honor to get a "job with benefits". 2) What if more people decide to not get healthcare? If your job gives it to you and you "only" have to pay a few hundred a month for your family, you are more likely to get it than if you payed everything out of pocket each month (even if your compensation increased). People would see all…

1) Employers could still cover the premium as a benefit. You'd just get to choose how and where to use the money.

2) Make it truly mandatory like in all developed countries.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#143

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

admiun wrote: post #138

chooseaname wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love for this to happen. But I see a couple blockers. 1) It is some sort of badge of honor to get a "job with benefits". 2) What if more people decide to not get healthcare? If your job gives it to you and you "only" have to pay a few hundred a month for your family, you are more likely to get it than if you payed everything out of pocket each month (even if your compensation increased). People would see all…

Regarding 2), you could just make healthcare insurance mandatory. We have that in The Netherlands.

It is currently mandatory in the US , however, this year, the penalty was reduced to zero. Which means it's basically not mandatory.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#144

Post by dx87 » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:21 PM UTC

admiun wrote: post #138

chooseaname wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love for this to happen. But I see a couple blockers. 1) It is some sort of badge of honor to get a "job with benefits". 2) What if more people decide to not get healthcare? If your job gives it to you and you "only" have to pay a few hundred a month for your family, you are more likely to get it than if you payed everything out of pocket each month (even if your compensation increased). People would see all…

Regarding 2), you could just make healthcare insurance mandatory. We have that in The Netherlands.

What if someone refuses to pay? Do they get a fine that's higher than what the cost of paying for healthcare would have been?

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#145

Post by ghaff » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:21 PM UTC

helpPeople wrote: post #33

mschuster91 wrote: post #9

... and this is why pension schemes should be managed by the government or at least tightly regulated. Just imagine GE going bankrupt - who's gonna pay the pension, then? The government in a bailout or what?

Do people not understand this is how pensions work. If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension. I find it incredibly risky to rely on pensions. I don't quite understand why employees are so excited about non cash benefits.

Leaving aside government guarantees or other forms of pension insurance that may or may not be effective...

>If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension.

It depends. My pension has gone through a couple of different acquisitions but it still exists.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#146

Post by at-fates-hands » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:21 PM UTC

chooseaname wrote: post #118

zarro wrote: post #85

I really think that the sooner we can separate out pensions and healthcare from employers, the better. Businesses main area of expertise is not in pensions and healthcare, and they cannot provide these services as efficiently as if there were many different insurance companies on the market offering these services for sale, and instead the company paid you a fee for your services, and then you went out on the market…

I would love for this to happen. But I see a couple blockers. 1) It is some sort of badge of honor to get a "job with benefits". 2) What if more people decide to not get healthcare? If your job gives it to you and you "only" have to pay a few hundred a month for your family, you are more likely to get it than if you payed everything out of pocket each month (even if your compensation increased). People would see all…

>> What if more people decide to not get healthcare?

This is exactly what happened under the ACA. This is also the main reason many major health care companies like Aetna and UHG dropped out of the exchanges:

Insurers need young people to, in a basic sense, pay into the system, since they tend to be healthier and use fewer healthcare services — thus partially subsidizing the older and less healthy people that cost more to cover than they pay in.

Since the rollout of the exchanges, the number of young, healthy people signing up has not been enough to offset the sicker population, leading to millions of dollars in losses for many insurers.

https://www.businessinsider.com/millennial-uninsured-rate-ob...

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#147

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:23 PM UTC

phonebanshee wrote: post #53

helpPeople wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people not understand this is how pensions work. If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension. I find it incredibly risky to rely on pensions. I don't quite understand why employees are so excited about non cash benefits.

Why do you think that? httpss://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension_Benefit_Guaranty_Corporation

PBGC only insures some part of a pension, has many exclusions, and is definitely not "funded" enough itself to protect against the number of pension funds that are running out of funds.

https://www.ai-cio.com/news/multiemployer-pension-lifeboat-s...

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#148

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:23 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #131

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when I retire they continue pumping money into the same funds - I can't do that, my contributions stop and I enter "withdraw" mode - the company doesn't. Yes, the plan can have problems, but I'm just saying why I think people still like it, and it does have definite advantages over your own savings.

> when I retire they continue pumping money into the same funds Lol you hope.

It's not without it's own faults, I get that.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#149

Post by mercutio2 » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:23 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #57

helpPeople wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people not understand this is how pensions work. If your company isn't there when you retire, you don't get a pension. I find it incredibly risky to rely on pensions. I don't quite understand why employees are so excited about non cash benefits.

In Germany, the pension (Rentenversicherung) follows you during your employment life, the mandatory contributions are automatically paid by your employer and it does not matter if the employer goes belly-up at some time between now and your eventual death. The idea that someone could lose their retirement and depend on social security or nothing at all simply because the company one has dedicated his life to goes ban…

It is a horrible idea, which is why it’s not true for defined benefit retirement funds in the US.

Unless one happens to work for a religious organization, in which case, yes, I agree, we should remove the religious exemption from needing to contribute to the common insurance fund for defined benefit plans.

Re: GE freezes pension benefits for 20k employees

#150

Post by nguoi » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #132

walshemj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was comparing the US DC (401k) vs say the UK (A Group Personal Pension or a SIPP).

Based on some quick Googling, I don't see what is so much better about an SIPP or a group personal pension plan? SIPP offers some kind of matching from the government, but it doesn't seem significant.

I don't know anything about the 401k system, but the money going into my pension is from my gross salary. Combined with high taxation, it means that it's worth up to twice as much going into my pension as it would be going into my bank account.

SIPPs are beyond my lifestyle.