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Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

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Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#301

Post by Robotbeat »

maxsilver wrote: post #290
jfk13 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. Providing free chargers (i.e. subsidizing people's driving expenses) may be great PR for businesses, municipalities, etc., as long as there are relatively few people using them, but will not be sustainable as demand increases. And as more people shift from ICE-powered vehicles to electric ones, it seems likely that some of…

> I have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. (Free charging) will not be sustainable as demand increases. For "superchargers" and other fast charging, I agree. But slower L2 entry-level chargers are so cheap, and electricity so cheap, I don't see free charging going away entirely. Already in Michigan, it's cheaper to just give away free L2 charging to anyone who wa…

Yup. And equivalent to providing free parking. You have a captive audience, and the price isn't high. Any time I use one of those "free" level 2 chargers, I always buy something where it's possible to do so. You're only talking like one or two dollars worth of electricity (I think people who don't have electric cars don't realize this), and then only if I stay an hour or three.

If I could seemlessly pay about 120% of my residential rate to slow charge, I would for convenience sake alone. But no one has really figured this out, yet.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#302

Post by Robotbeat »

greglindahl wrote: post #243
jfk13 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a suspicion that as electric cars become more common, free chargers will become less so. Providing free chargers (i.e. subsidizing people's driving expenses) may be great PR for businesses, municipalities, etc., as long as there are relatively few people using them, but will not be sustainable as demand increases. And as more people shift from ICE-powered vehicles to electric ones, it seems likely that some of…

Plenty of places already charge an equivalent to gas taxes for electric vehicles. In my US state, it's paid with your yearly registration. My city initially gave away free charging to lower air pollution, which wasn't on your list of reasons. 6 years after that start, they've started charging.

Yeah, I pay over double to the state for my electric car in extra EV taxes than I would for state gas taxes. It's actually punitive for EV owners (ostensibly because they're "rich," but I bought mine used and am definitely not rich).

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#303

Post by [deleted] »

clouddrover wrote: post #273
mediaman wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prius sales have dropped off a cliff. Sales are down six years in a row. Peak sales were 236,000 in 2012, and just 87,000 last year. Part of that is that there's a lot more hybrid competition for the Prius than there used to be.

Toyota has sold over 10 million hybrid vehicles in the last 20 years: https://global.toyota/en/detail/14940871 But I bet they're crying all the way to the bank.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#305

Post by xbmcuser »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #298
xbmcuser wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need plugs where people park their cars at work rather than at homes. As that is the peak for solar power and also the point where power prices go negative in some countries because of excess production. Night time charging unless your grid is mostly nuclear or wind is probably the worst in terms of pollution.

In UK and Norther europe solar is of minimal use, so the situation is reverse. Night time electricity is cheapest.

I am not talking about cheap but about pollution. As more cars go electric it would be better if the car charging is done at peak solar. UK is getting out of europe with brexit but the other remaining countries are connecting their grids with each other so even northern european countries would be using more solar even without having much sunlight

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#306

Post by nojvek »

markvdb wrote: post #246
freehunter wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to me as an American how little need Europeans have for large American-style vehicles. I see Audi station wagons in Switzerland pulling horse trailers (with horses in them), doing 100mph on the freeway. In the US, anyone who pulls a horse trailer once a year would have a dualie diesel HD3500 with exhaust stacks, as their daily driver.

Warning: somewhat off topic comment to follow. I've noticed reverse anecdotal evidence when I saw cars with ridiculous 6.5l engines in the US and Canada. It's amazing to me with my western European background how energy inefficient the US and Canada are per USD of GDP.[0][1] It must be so much harder as an individual to make energy saving choices in an environment where those are an afterthought. [0] https://data.wor…

Both in trash and energy. We consume a ton per capita.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#307

Post by alkonaut »

elygre wrote: post #265
alkonaut wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway every single person buying a new car makes the decision based on tax incentives to a large extent.

As a (fellow?) Norwegian, I beg to differ. Some of us thinks electric cars are both great cars and environmentally friendly, and make buying decisions based on those two.

All I’m saying is that no Norwegian (or anyone else) ignores price in a purchase decision, and the one time fees for cars in Norway are so large that no one can ignore them. Those that are inclined to purchase a hybrid or EV isn’t exactly going to be discouraged by the tax/fee rebates.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#308

Post by VladimirGolovin »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #145

Tesla is almost 25% of the sales in Norway. Counting Tesla's on the road has started to become a bit silly. Just walking up to my local grocery story in Oslo, I may see 6-7 Tesla's on that short walk. I only realize how abnormal that is when it is when I travel abroad. Spent several days in London and didn't see a single Tesla. Spent a week in Spain and didn't even see an electric car at all. In Norway there are Leaf…

I've seen quite a lot of electric cars in Barcelona this summer. Mostly Teslas, BMW i3s, and some Renaults with the plug hidden behind the front logo. The main street, the Diagonal, has charging stations, and often I saw plugged-in cars charging there.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#309

Post by somerandomqaguy »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #187
ryanSrich wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, price also holds people back. An entry level Tesla with autopilot is still north of $40k after taxes (even with the break).

Average price of a new car in the US is $37k. 17 million new cars a year sold in the US. Price isn’t as big of an issue as it’s made to be. If you can’t afford a Tesla, you probably should only be looking at affordable used cars anyway (like a Toyota or Honda for $10k-$20k).

Kinda. People in the US spending that much money on a car are more likely to be buying larger utility vehicles (SUV's and CUV's).

So price does indeed become an issue because they're different buying segments. People shopping for the larger vehicles tend to be buying them because of greater usability and comfort for driver and passengers.

The Model 3 sits firmly in the compact sedan segment, something entirely different. The people buying those are either looking for pure economy while not having the issues of a used car (in which case starting price is around $20,000), or they're buying in the luxury car segment which is where the M3 is, meaning it's no different then buying an Audi A3.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#310

Post by de_watcher »

xyzzyz wrote: post #153
Faark wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just that, ICE cars emit their shitty exhaust right where lots of people live. Things are generally more complex than breaking it down to a single CO2 number make it appear, and I'm a bit uneasy that recent trend.

Gasoline burns very cleanly in modern (that is, Compared to those two, though, coal power plants are dirty as hell, and I’d take equivalent amount of car emissions to generate the same power over coal any day.

Why can I smell those clean cars then?
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