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It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

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Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#281

Post by ip26 »

speedplane wrote: post #48

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

I suspect the real motivation is ... and classicism (only the rich drive cars in NYC)

Well, then banning cars is certainly one way to get the rich to care about making transit better...

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#282

Post by ip26 »

lukeschlather wrote: post #237
speedplane wrote: post #48

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

> NYC politicians should be focused on how to move the most amount of people, the safest and quickest way, for the cheapest cost. This is a great example of "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure." Expending vast resources to move people quickly is really something we should avoid. We should be working to locate people within easy walking distance of everything they want, minimizing the numb…

If you accept "reducing average trip distance" as one method of increasing the bandwidth & speed of your travel network, then your stated considerations are really already part of your parent's goal.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#283

Post by telchar »

andybp85 wrote: post #177
danielschlaug wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption that cars are the only publicly available cargo carriers would also be ridiculous if cars weren’t so abundant that all other solutions are floored. There’s everything from cargo bicycles to autonomous delivery vehicles that could fill this role.

Autonomous delivery vehicles in a pedestrian-filled area sounds like sci-fi given the current state of technology. The amount of gear required for even a small production can be significant. I also do sound for a wedding DJ, and the rig that we bring to any event even if they have their own PA requires multiple trips with a large folding cart to bring from the vehicle to where it's going. We currently handle this by…

It would make a ton of sense for park-and-ride like garages to have rental stations for cargo bikes or small electric delivery platforms (more like golf cart than car, e.g. Gator 6x6 though electric would be nicer). That way someone coming in would have a last mile solution that wouldn't present a huge danger to pedestrians. Or every few roads could be set to allow limited vehicle access for deliveries in normal hours and all roads allow nighttime deliveries. This wouldn't be a substantial burden while providing all the benefits of a carless space.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#284

Post by ip26 »

dan_mctree wrote: post #242
gambiting wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Electric vehicules are usually better than thermal ones, but they're still a big carbon emitter My argument here is always that even if all electricity was produced from coal power plants(it isn't) surely it's much better to have one big carbon emitter far outside of the city, than thousands of smaller carbon emitters in the middle of the city. Yes, it is just externalising the emissions, but I think it's important…

That would make sense if all things are equal, but there are efficiency issues here. Having to take the extra step to convert the fossil fuels into electricity first (plus the later battery storage) means the same fossil fuels don't deliver as much power to the vehicles. That said, it's probably a wise move to move to electricity powered vehicles anyway because of the slow shift to reusables.

Note, internal combustion engines are only about 20% efficient. Coal plants are ~37% efficient, natural gas plants are 55-60%, the grid is maybe 90% efficient, and an EV is about 60% efficient. So 20-32% efficiency.

I've glossed over many factors to be sure, but the point is while a lot is lost powering an EV, internal combustion engines are just as bad or worse.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#285

Post by Swizec »

chroma wrote: post #21
Swizec wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without restricting car ownership Why? This seems like an unnecessary optimization in a city like NYC where the population density already makes it largely unnecessary to own a personal vehicle. I live in SF which is also among the densest cities in USA and in my 5 years here never have I felt like I'd need to own a car. They're inconvenient and expensive. Most of my day-to-day is easier to accomplish on foot becau…

Taking public transportation in the bay area is incredibly stressful. I've had people try to fight me. I've had people threaten to stab me. I've had people smoke meth on the same car as me. Hell, last year one of my friends was robbed at gunpoint on bart. If these services were run by a private company, they would be shut down for safety violations. I much prefer cars because it means I don't have to worry about vagr…

As a counterpoint: I choose to live within walking distance of where I need to be every day. Or an electric rideable or bicycle of some sort.

I did buy a motorcycle recently which does improve on some of that, but most of the improvement has been eaten up by the extra time it takes to gear up and park.

Commuting is probably the single worst thing you can do to your quality of life.

PS: yes I know this is a position of privilege. We’re on hacker news and I believe most of us share similar privileges

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#286

Post by jcranmer »

maxsilver wrote: post #185
CydeWeys wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because 95% of Americans truly can't live without a car. I'm calling bullshit on this. Way more than 5% of Americans are already living without cars. You don't have a great read on how many people actually get around. Most cities of any size have buses, and people actually do take those buses. Also, the median household income in Manhattan is ~$70k/year. I have no idea where you're getting this idea that everyone w…

> You don't have a great read on how many people actually get around. I'm reading the numbers direct from my local bus authority. I'm sure transit ridership in Manhattan is higher (since they actually have a real subway system and such). But of course, most Americans don't have any access to LRT / subways, so... > You're making the typical false claim that rich people can afford to not drive and poor people are depen…

Approximately 8.6% of US households do not own a single car, as of 2017. Only 76.4% of commuters commute via single-occupancy vehicles; another 8.9% commute via carpool. These statistics are nationwide. Your claim that "95% of Americans truly can't live without a car" is contradicted by the fact that more than 5% do not own a car in the first place.

It's true that living in, say, Rantoul, Illinois is going to be difficult without a car. But the list of cities that have at least some form of bus service does go down to some pretty small cities (<100,000), and most of the country anyways lives in large cities or their suburbs, where transit is viable.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#287

Post by humanrebar »

CydeWeys wrote: post #236
humanrebar wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I almost never take them except to the airport... And you probably have functioning limbs, respiratory system, eyes, etc. > ...the densest subway network in the United States... Manhattan is not very accessible. The stations do not have elevators in most cases. The platforms are narrow and often dangerously crowded at peak hours. As an experiment, I suggest you push a bad of flour around in a stroller for a week or…

Most people have functioning limbs, respiratory systems, etc. We shouldn't design a system that allows everyone to drive just because a much smaller minority has a harder time taking alternatives. We already have paratransit for the elderly and handicapped in NYC. My 97-year-old great aunt uses it. And those people will benefit from getting rid of most of the rest of the vehicles, as it will reduce congestion (and th…

> ...a much smaller minority has a harder time taking alternatives

At any given time it's a minority. But everyone is a baby, has a baby, or is elderly at some point.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#288

Post by jogjayr »

speedplane wrote: post #48

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

> how to move the most amount of people, the safest and quickest way, for the cheapest cost.

Cars are not known for being cheap[1], safe[2], or space-efficient[3].

1. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/loans/total-cost-owning-car/

2. https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2018/12/21/child-dea...

3. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/oct/17/bikes-cars-cy...

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#289

Post by jhayward »

megablast wrote: post #100
afarrell wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does someone do if they twist their ankle badly and are on crutches for a month?

What everyone who has done this and does not have a car does. Why do people pretend there are situations they can't live without a car, when most people in the world do it, and even a lot of people in your city do it.

You haven't answered the question, you've merely attacked the questioner.
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