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Eek, A Male

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Re: Eek, A Male

#41

Post by sqrt17 »

mcknz wrote: post #10

A BBC story from 2006? Stories from her friends? That's the best she's got? Would be nice to see a real article on this topic with actual analysis and data. Of course it's stupid to label all men as possible predators, but there's another side to it: when a single pedophile can damage literally hundreds of children, who wouldn't have cause for concern? The challenge is to find the level of concern that is reasonable…

The BBC story from 2006 seems to be the one older story in there, while at least the first two examples were in the news recently. If this is not enough to make it a "real article with actual analysis and data", most of the stuff that makes soccer moms uneasy to see their kids with random males wouldn't make the cut either.

It's extremely stupid to label all men as possible pedophile, and it's even really stupid to ascribe - to each and every pedophile - the faculty (let alone willingness) to be a predator.

Most children who are abused are abused by close relatives, so (as unpopular as that is) keep a close eye on other family members and your kids' buddies' parents, with a reasonable amount of concern. Teaching your children to fear all and every stranger, or any male adult, will deal considerable psychological damage to them; when a single well-meaning caregiver can damage literally hundreds of children in that way, who wouldn't have cause for concern?

Re: Eek, A Male

#42

Post by DanielBMarkham »

alexophile wrote: post #24

[I originally posted this on a reddit discussion, link's at the bottom] One day, my friend Bryan was charged with the daunting task of getting Ellie, one of the older and more difficult students, to read out of a children's book for a distinct and measurable amount of time. After some cajoling, pleading, and maybe even trickery, the two were finally sitting down at a table with myself and another student. To keep Ell…

I'll never forget when my two oldest kids (now in their 20s) went to one of those early head-start kind of places when they were a kid.

One week the lesson was on inappropriate touching. I know this because both kids spent the next month inappropriately touching everybody they met -- with some very humorous results.

Of all the things that have changed in the last 40 years or so, this thing we've done where we've trained everybody to be afraid of each other is probably the worst. Every day parents are bombarded by statistically highly-unlikely events that they take to be commonplace. It's made an awful impact on the fabric of society. Very sad.

Re: Eek, A Male

#43

Post by varjag »

sarkozy wrote: post #34
varjag wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's why most of the successful tech CEOs are female.

You're defining 'successful' in monetary terms while I'm more concerned with the psychological health of the working environment. I'm saying women are better managers because they are less prone to the types of socially tone-deaf interpersonal problems you see lampooned in Dilbert. In other words, if I had to choose between a male manager who could create a succesful company versus a female manager who knew how to fo…

Why yes, business success is defined in monetary terms. Good CEO brings good money to the company.

But to bring it back to the subject, my son's kindergarten was 1/2 staffed by males (we're in Norway). He loved every minute of it.

Re: Eek, A Male

#44

Post by aplusbi »

mcknz wrote: post #10

A BBC story from 2006? Stories from her friends? That's the best she's got? Would be nice to see a real article on this topic with actual analysis and data. Of course it's stupid to label all men as possible predators, but there's another side to it: when a single pedophile can damage literally hundreds of children, who wouldn't have cause for concern? The challenge is to find the level of concern that is reasonable…

While I agree about the lack of supporting evidence for her claims, nothing in the article suggested to me that she isn't concerned about pedophiles, nor do I think this article was really near a gray area at all.

>Of course it's stupid to label all men as possible predators, but there's another side to it: when a single pedophile can damage literally hundreds of children, who wouldn't have cause for concern?

Concern about pedophiles isn't the other side to this. It's related in so far as our concern about pedophiles has turned into a concern about men in general. The only way it could be the other side would be if the majority of pedophiles are men (probably true) AND if a significant amount of men are pedophiles (I don't think I need to cite any references to say this is absolutely false).

It's pretty easy to have concern about pedophiles without having concern about men working with children. In fact, we already have systems in place for this - all teachers are screened before they are hired, for example.

Re: Eek, A Male

#45

Post by meterplech »

Lenore Skenazy is actually the leader of an entire movement around kids being able to do more of what they want (hence the book: Free Range Kids). You can check out the blog here: http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/

Also, she caused quite a stir a few years ago for letting her 9 year old kid ride the subway alone. Her story about it is here: http://www.nysun.com/news/why-i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-subwa...

Re: Eek, A Male

#46

Post by oiuhjyftgrdgh »

maxawaytoolong wrote: post #21
axod wrote: post #8

If I had to choose one of the following, to improve society: a). More women in tech b). More men in childcare/teaching It'd be 'b' without a doubt. As said elsewhere, the complete lack of any male role models at a large number of schools is astonishing and very worrying. Is it any wonder girls are performing better than boys these days, as the number of male teachers has decreased to almost none? Great to finally see…

Does it really make any difference? I grew up in an anachronistic small town and had at least 50% male teachers from 1st grade on up. I can't say I paid attention to any of my teachers, male or female. If anything, I thought the male teachers were much bigger idiots and losers than the female teachers. In no way did I view them as "role models."

Suppose you are black kid in the inner city and none of your teachers are black, cos they might be criminals or a muslim kid and none of your teachers are brown (terrorists) - you might have some doubts about whether you can be a teacher or whether school is for you.

Re: Eek, A Male

#47

Post by sarkozy »

axod wrote: post #35
sarkozy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More men are not needed in childcare/teaching because women are naturally - from birth - better at the type of empathy and communication that is required in those fields. It's the same reason that women excel in technology management roles (while generally being inferior in technical roles because of inadequate training or aptitude, exceptional cases like Marissa Mayer excepted). Even a woman with average communicati…

In the 'olden' days, we used to have discipline in schools. So male teachers were extremely useful to have. Bad pupils used to get told off, disciplined, and snapped into line. Now, naughty kids get 'diagnosed' and given a cool label, get a 'teachers assistant' assigned to them - effectively praised for being naughty. I agree with your point about women excelling at empathy and communication, but I'd say the movement…

I disagree that men are better at disciplining children than women are.

Re: Eek, A Male

#48

Post by ryanwaggoner »

kenjackson wrote: post #23
axod wrote: post #8

If I had to choose one of the following, to improve society: a). More women in tech b). More men in childcare/teaching It'd be 'b' without a doubt. As said elsewhere, the complete lack of any male role models at a large number of schools is astonishing and very worrying. Is it any wonder girls are performing better than boys these days, as the number of male teachers has decreased to almost none? Great to finally see…

I have to admit I'd go the complete opposite. I do know there are great male teachers, but in environments where the male teacher might be alone with children I am hesitant. The data bears this out, as does personal experience. With that said male coaches or piano teachers or tutors I have no problem with, since those generally take place in plainsight of parents. I know that really sucks for the good ones, and most…

Not that your position is logical, but if it was, it seems like you'd have the opposite position: teachers might be alone with groups of children, but probably not with a single child, one-on-one.

But piano teachers and other tutors seem like they'd often be alone one-on-one with a child. I was always dropped off by my parents (or rode my bike across town) for those kinds of things. Do parents today really cart their children around and sit and watch them every second? Geez.

To be clear, in no way am I advocating that paranoia against male piano teachers or tutors is justified.

Re: Eek, A Male

#49

Post by defroost »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #12

The media deserves a good chunk of blame for this phenomenon. They have inflamed society's fears into paranoia by hyping and over-reporting exceptional events, giving the false impression that child predators are anywhere and everywhere. Meanwhile, children are far more likely to be physically or sexually abused or kidnapped by close relatives. But that story is less compelling from a media perspective so the public…

I agree. I also think that like many things, this kind of paranoia regarding pedophilia is taken the the extreme in the US. I've spent time in several European countries, Greece for example, where it is perfectly OK for an adult man to pat someone else's child on the head without the mother pulling the kid close.

Re: Eek, A Male

#50

Post by vacri »

kenjackson wrote: post #23
axod wrote: post #8

If I had to choose one of the following, to improve society: a). More women in tech b). More men in childcare/teaching It'd be 'b' without a doubt. As said elsewhere, the complete lack of any male role models at a large number of schools is astonishing and very worrying. Is it any wonder girls are performing better than boys these days, as the number of male teachers has decreased to almost none? Great to finally see…

I have to admit I'd go the complete opposite. I do know there are great male teachers, but in environments where the male teacher might be alone with children I am hesitant. The data bears this out, as does personal experience. With that said male coaches or piano teachers or tutors I have no problem with, since those generally take place in plainsight of parents. I know that really sucks for the good ones, and most…

The moon is made of cheese and Atlantis is located just off Greenland. The data bears this out.

I'll provide a citation for my claims if you provide one for yours. The plural of anecdote is not data.

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