It's time to ban cars from Manhattan? • Hacker News Board

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#221

Post by cascom » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #22

baron816 wrote: post #20

I was once riding in a cab, ranting about how private cars should be banned in NYC, and the driver spoke up and said that no one who drives in the city wants to drive there—they do it because they have to. They do it because many neighbors within the greater metro area aren’t severed by any form of public transportation.

I'd be interested to see numbers on that (e.g. what percentage of cars are coming from which locations). There are people poorly served by transit, but Manhattan also has a lot of fairly wealthy people driving, or even being chauffeured, on routes that have perfectly usable transit that they'd just rather not use. Car ownership in NYC (45% overall) is much higher among wealthier than poorer people, and especially so…

Because someone in Manhattan owns a car does not mean they use it on a daily basis. From what I see the biggest contributors to parking and congestion in manhattan are people commuting in from outer boroughs and suburbs, then there are the visitors in for lunch and a museum or dinner and a show from the suburbs, Uber or Lyft drivers, and tradesmen/deliveries

People that own cars in Manhattan use them to escape on the weekends...not drive around during the week

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#222

Post by mayneack » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

speedplane wrote: post #48

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

Removing cars and adding bus lanes seems obviously designed to improve transportation and livability? Why do you think it's not?

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#223

Post by rb808 » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 2:55 PM UTC

To me its crazy that parking in Manhattan is so cheap that a family on the Train would cost more than parking (in cheap buildings). On Sunday street parking is free!

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#224

Post by Pxtl » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #168

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately in the US most of the major cities have essentially been designed (or redesigned) around private vehicles, so banning them is not going to happen. However you are absolutely correct - walking through Times Square in NYC is a pleasure (aside from all the guys in Batman costumes) with traffic removed compared to turn of the millennia. I don’t care to bike but the bike lanes squeezing out all the auto traf…

The most recent part of Manhattan to be designed was still over two centuries ago in 1811, so we're not going to have that problem at least. But I think you're over-estimating how hard it would be to get rid of traffic in many other urban cores in the US. You don't need to do the entire city; you can just do the densest parts. It's not that hard to beef up a city's existing bus services and use them to totally replac…

There are many old, great US cities that have been converted from dense, manhattan-like landscape into 90% parking lots.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Pxtl/status/1180325377996201985

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#225

Post by Merrill » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 3:12 PM UTC

mayneack wrote: post #219

Merrill wrote: post #143

This seems to ignore freight. First, since there are no freight railroads into Manhattan; everything consumed by the residents and the much larger daytime population has to arrive by truck. Most freight into Manhattan comes via the Hudson River bridges and tunnels since the container port is in New Jersey and the rail yards are also there. There is little barge traffic, although I think that garbage is barged out via…

I forget where I saw it, but I think the 14th street closure allows local deliveries. Trucks find it easier to deliver because they no longer have to double park.

Not sure what the actual statistics would be, but using Google streetview, it seems that trucks/vans are maybe 20% of traffic. Taxis, limos, Uber, etc. probably make up another 30%.

Private autos are probably on the order of half. It would be interesting to know what percentages are trips NJ to LI/outer boroughs, LI/outer boroughs to Manhattan, and NJ to Manhattan.

I personally would not drive in Manhattan unless absolutely necessary (not for decades!) and have only crossed it in the dead of night or from the GWB to the Bronx.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#226

Post by CydeWeys » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 3:12 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #186

CydeWeys wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because 95% of Americans truly can't live without a car. I'm calling bullshit on this. Way more than 5% of Americans are already living without cars. You don't have a great read on how many people actually get around. Most cities of any size have buses, and people actually do take those buses. Also, the median household income in Manhattan is ~$70k/year. I have no idea where you're getting this idea that everyone w…

Please try not to respond with personal attacks.

Which personal attacks?

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#227

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 3:18 PM UTC

sasaf5 wrote: post #204

izacus wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My home city (capital of the country) did exactly that and it brought a huge amount of life and new businesses to the city center. Not to mention that tourism exploded as well - the city center is now a very pleasant place to go out and grab a coffee next to a river or on a street with no loud and smelly traffic to be seen (picture during summer: https://files.stocky.ai/uploads/2019/01/image-Preseren-squar... ) Of co…

> "We won't be able to move furniture!" Also frequently used to justify buying a big SUV, just to learn that the average piece of furniture doesn't fit in the average SUV.

The average SUV is a fastback car with a few extra inches of ground clearance. Just modernized versions of the Tercel 4WD.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#228

Post by CydeWeys » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 3:18 PM UTC

andybp85 wrote: post #201

CydeWeys wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see plenty of musicians humping their instruments on the subway. It's not that hard to carry a guitar or two, some pedals, a pack of cymbals, etc. The venues are already equipped with the big stuff (pianos/drum kits/PAs) because it would be absurd to expect every band to lug in an entire PA setup or drum kit when they know damn well that most musicians are taking the subway and using roughly the same kinda stuff. W…

Depends on the venue; I've played things like coffee shops that required us and the people putting the show on to bring everything inc. drums and a PA system. That's also specific to musicians, like I said there's a bunch of things that have these same types of requirements. Catering comes to mind off the top of my head, and they have to worry about temperature control for their products as a safety concern. I've nev…

That sucks about that coffee shop. It frankly doesn't sound like a good music venue if it provides no accommodations for musicians. I hope they paid you a lot for the hassle of having to bring in all that equipment. If they didn't, I'd say don't take those gigs in the future. That may be the reason they had to get out-of-towners to play it.

The catering example falls into the general delivery use case. Yes, there's still going to be a need for delivery vehicles. But they need to be made much safer (right now they're the #1 cause of death for cyclists, and they kill a lot of pedestrians too). And when we get rid of most of the cars, at least that'll free up a lot of on-street space for loading zones so you won't constantly see trucks that are illegally double parked or blocking bike lanes.

Specifically on the truck safety issue, we need trucks that adhere to pedestrian/cyclist safety standards, i.e. smaller, non-articulated ones that have full skirts all the way around that prevent people from being driven over in the event of a crash. Right now we have all the way up to full semi-trailers driving through the city (which are illegal but the cops don't enforce), which make super wide turns and can easily sweep people under the wheels and crush them to death.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#229

Post by delfinom » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 3:18 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #27

NYC needs to dump a lot of work into their rail system, and not slack off in the good times. They keep flipping from having one of the best systems in the US to being plagued by terrible issues, every decade. Chicago hasn't expanded in a while, but they maintain their tracks, buy new stock and renovate stations. I don't think people appreciate how incredibly important all that maintenance is to the city. I hope Chica…

Do not mix subway with rail. NYC has a subway system, it more or less functions independent from NYC's rail network.

NYC's rail network covers 4 boroughs and goes all the way to the end of Long Island. They are spending $100 million just this year alone building additional freight transfer points in Brooklyn & Queens and adding more marine barge terminals explicitly to remove more trucks entering NYC.

NYC's subway network is not owned by NYC but by NYS which is operated by the MTA, they can't really run it themselves and it's a point of political fighting.

However, there is tons being done by the MTA while people bitch and moan while dedicating no effort to educating themselves.

Over 1k new subway cars are on order (and honestly, there hasnt been a time in the last 2 decades they haven't been, the subway just requires a shit-ton of them).

There are track geometry scanning trains that run and down the lines at least once a week per line to scan rails for defects. And they recently acquired another train to do so as well. This helps reduce unexpected failures.

They have been replacing all wooden ties with concrete ties as they can. They are also switching out for continuous welded rail as they go as well.

Signal work is disastrous because the amount of track (>700 miles) AND multiple subway lines intermix meaning every mixed line needs to be replaced at the same time. All while maintaining 24/7 service, AND DONT YOU DARE DISCUSS HALTING A TRAIN LINE AT NIGHT TO EXPEDITE WORK LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD, you'll be voted out of office.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#230

Post by mruts » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 3:19 PM UTC

DailyHN wrote: post #158

souterrain wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s mind boggling how much affordable parking there is in Manhattan. I was doing some work in Staten Island and had an appointment in Manhattan later in the day, leaving via NJ, so I drove and was able to find parking for less than $50 in the financial district. This should have been impossible, and I should have been forced to leave my car where it was, take a bus to St. George, and get on the ferry.

$50 for parking is affordable?

I used to pay $200 for my car per month at a garage. Not bad considering that a NJ monthly pass for me would have been over $400.