It's time to ban cars from Manhattan? • Hacker News Board

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#191

Post by MereInterest » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

cagenut wrote: post #142

megablast wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What everyone who has done this and does not have a car does. Why do people pretend there are situations they can't live without a car, when most people in the world do it, and even a lot of people in your city do it.

my theory is its rooted in this: https://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/13/science/when-the-brain-sa... people who spend an hour+ a day for years on end in their car have mentally expanded their subconscious definition of themselves, their corporal being, with the skin of the car. this is a necessary mental process to prevent them from clipping mailboxes and 'rubbing paint' with other drivers that they then can't really "tu…

There's an interesting related study which was looking for causes of road rage, and found a correlation with the number of bumper stickers [1]. The content of the bumper stickers didn't matter, just whether or not there were bumper stickers. The conclusion was in how people interpreted the space of a car. More bumper stickers indicated that somebody viewed the car and the space that it occupied as personal space, rather than as transportation, or as a way to use a shared resource.

[1] https://www.nature.com/news/2008/080613/full/news.2008.889.h...

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#192

Post by ThomPete » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:51 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #109

ThomPete wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manhattan is different in that it connects New Jersey and Brooklyn into a super region, they are dependent on each other to thrive. Banning cars would be an absurd nightmare at least in this situation.

I work in Manhattan and live in Brooklyn, and my office overlooks the Holland Tunnel (connection to New Jersey). Roads are a backlogged mess every evening, where "evening" on Friday seems to start at noon. Traffic cops are in a half-dozen intersections around the Holland Tunnel entrance manually restricting flow and more importantly rerouting cars to keep all the possible entrance routes roughly balanced. The vast ma…

You are confusing anecdotes with the bigger system. Holland tunnel is a problem once in a while not all the time.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#193

Post by missosoup » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #170

throwaway122378 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw in taxis, Uber, lyft and you have all your cars again. A city like Manhattan would not make it without taxis

No, you definitely don't have exceptions for taxis. Why are you saying that we wouldn't survive without taxis?? I almost never take them except to the airport, and I'm easily willing to give that up if it means I don't have to tangle with horrible congested car traffic on a daily basis. Do you live in Manhattan? What makes you so sure we couldn't survive without taxis, given that we have the densest subway network in…

> What makes you so sure we couldn't survive without taxis, given that we have the densest subway network in the United States, even more bus lines than that, and Citibike?

lmao imagine high paid consultants politicians and tv celebrities on Citibike.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#194

Post by missosoup » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #147

throwaway122378 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw in taxis, Uber, lyft and you have all your cars again. A city like Manhattan would not make it without taxis

Why not? Aren't people capable of walking for a few blocks?

Fuck everyone with disabilities yeah? ALS? Just walk a few blocks! Parkinson's? Just walk a few blocks! Dystrophy? Just walk a few blocks!

Life isn't hard enough for these individuals so let's kick it up a notch by rolling out exclusively ableist transportation.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#195

Post by ajmurmann » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

JDiculous wrote: post #44

No, just do what countries like Singapore, Japan, and Korea have done.

What do they do?

Of the countries you listed I’ve only been to japan. Besides great public transit street parking is mostly prohibited and many streets naturally aren’t well suited for cars at all, turning them into something very similar to German pedestrian zones.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#196

Post by ThomPete » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

mobilefriendly wrote: post #89

ThomPete wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manhattan is different in that it connects New Jersey and Brooklyn into a super region, they are dependent on each other to thrive. Banning cars would be an absurd nightmare at least in this situation.

This isn't an actual argument against severely limiting cars. Most of the people traveling the super-region already use the subway or buses. That will become easier and more efficient without private cars.

How will it become more efficient to force more people onto the trains? You haven't traveled with the L train recently.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#197

Post by ThomPete » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #92

ThomPete wrote: post #86

Thats the most selfish idea ever. As a single you can live in on manhattan without any cars sure, but got a family, need to do summer camps in jersey but live in brooklyn. It would make life so much more difficult, and for what? Some wellmeaning but regressive environmentalists who dont need a car. In copenhagen its a disaster imo, and thats a small city. Big cities are big for a reason, a lot of activity. If you wan…

>but got a family, need to do summer camps in jersey but live in brooklyn. So take the train with your family? I don’t see the problem.

Which proves my point.

Try and have kids then we should talk.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#198

Post by smileysteve » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

zcid wrote: post #136

speedplane wrote: post #48

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

While I like the idea of pedestrian areas, it does feel like this is another angle for our elites to prepare the lower classes for austerity. Owning your own home, eating meat, being able to raise a family; all of these are things that our parents and grandparents took for granted but are looking less and less likely to be affordable in the coming decades. Rather than fix our economic issues, the solution seems to be…

On the other hand, available public transportation also increases economic mobility and decreases overall costs of the working poor. The ability to own, park, maintain a car is a large cliff, even in the cheapest of states. The ability to get to most jobs without a car in a reasonable time drastically decreases hurdles to economic mobility.

(and also of the middle class, whether that's the underinsured or carrying insurance against under insured divers.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#199

Post by ThomPete » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

1986 wrote: post #118

ThomPete wrote: post #86

Thats the most selfish idea ever. As a single you can live in on manhattan without any cars sure, but got a family, need to do summer camps in jersey but live in brooklyn. It would make life so much more difficult, and for what? Some wellmeaning but regressive environmentalists who dont need a car. In copenhagen its a disaster imo, and thats a small city. Big cities are big for a reason, a lot of activity. If you wan…

I don't understand the Brooklyn - Jersey rationale, you can already make that trip by car quite easily without needing to drive through Manhattan (eg via Staten Island)

Yes today, because manhattan takes som of the traffic. Forcing it around would increase congestion.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#200

Post by randallsquared » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #130

baron816 wrote: post #20

I was once riding in a cab, ranting about how private cars should be banned in NYC, and the driver spoke up and said that no one who drives in the city wants to drive there—they do it because they have to. They do it because many neighbors within the greater metro area aren’t severed by any form of public transportation.

Unfortunately you get to a point where no-one _does_ have to drive in a city, yet still people do. Oxford (UK) is a case in point. There are park-and-rides at every entrance to the city, good bus and train services, and conversely, awful congestion and exorbitant car parking costs. Yet I still know people from my town (15 miles outside) who choose to drive into Oxford even though there's an express train that takes u…

> Eventually you can't offer any more carrots and you have to start using a stick.

At least you're open that you want to force them to do what you prefer, instead of what's best for them. Most people who want to force their preferences on others are not so clear-eyed.