It's time to ban cars from Manhattan? • Hacker News Board

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#21

Post by chroma » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 6:55 AM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #6

HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

Unfortunately, New York City was built at a time when people rode horses, and its streets reflect that. And you can't just widen a street, certainly not in a city like NYC. You would have to destroy every building on one side of a street, and build new buildings, all for a gain of a few feet. Large megapolises like NYC need to start exploring the concept of 3D streets. Instead of having a single street level, on the…

> without restricting car ownership Why? This seems like an unnecessary optimization in a city like NYC where the population density already makes it largely unnecessary to own a personal vehicle. I live in SF which is also among the densest cities in USA and in my 5 years here never have I felt like I'd need to own a car. They're inconvenient and expensive. Most of my day-to-day is easier to accomplish on foot becau…

Taking public transportation in the bay area is incredibly stressful. I've had people try to fight me. I've had people threaten to stab me. I've had people smoke meth on the same car as me. Hell, last year one of my friends was robbed at gunpoint on bart. If these services were run by a private company, they would be shut down for safety violations.

I much prefer cars because it means I don't have to worry about vagrants, crazy people, and generally annoying assholes (such as those who play their music out of speakers instead of using headphones).

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#22

Post by _delirium » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 6:57 AM UTC

baron816 wrote: post #20

I was once riding in a cab, ranting about how private cars should be banned in NYC, and the driver spoke up and said that no one who drives in the city wants to drive there—they do it because they have to. They do it because many neighbors within the greater metro area aren’t severed by any form of public transportation.

I'd be interested to see numbers on that (e.g. what percentage of cars are coming from which locations). There are people poorly served by transit, but Manhattan also has a lot of fairly wealthy people driving, or even being chauffeured, on routes that have perfectly usable transit that they'd just rather not use. Car ownership in NYC (45% overall) is much higher among wealthier than poorer people, and especially so in Manhattan (22%). Those 22% of Manhattanites who own cars are also the ones who lobby hardest for pro-car policies, get angry when street parking is removed to make room for bus lanes or bike lanes, etc.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#23

Post by maaaats » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 7:03 AM UTC

baron816 wrote: post #20

I was once riding in a cab, ranting about how private cars should be banned in NYC, and the driver spoke up and said that no one who drives in the city wants to drive there—they do it because they have to. They do it because many neighbors within the greater metro area aren’t severed by any form of public transportation.

That's such a cop-out.

Either people will shift, moving or working someplace else. Or buses can be added (and more effective not being stuck behind thousands of cars).

Removing cars doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#24

Post by baby » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 7:06 AM UTC

I freaking love public/pedestrian streets. Wish there were more of them at least.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#25

Post by inferiorhuman » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

chroma wrote: post #21

Swizec wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without restricting car ownership Why? This seems like an unnecessary optimization in a city like NYC where the population density already makes it largely unnecessary to own a personal vehicle. I live in SF which is also among the densest cities in USA and in my 5 years here never have I felt like I'd need to own a car. They're inconvenient and expensive. Most of my day-to-day is easier to accomplish on foot becau…

Taking public transportation in the bay area is incredibly stressful. I've had people try to fight me. I've had people threaten to stab me. I've had people smoke meth on the same car as me. Hell, last year one of my friends was robbed at gunpoint on bart. If these services were run by a private company, they would be shut down for safety violations. I much prefer cars because it means I don't have to worry about vagr…

Taking public transportation in the bay area is incredibly stressful.

Counterpoint: all of the shootings up and down the I-80 corridor, wrong way drivers, sideshows, and road rage.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/bayarea/article/Update-4-Killed-...

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/06/25/traffic-stop-in-rich...

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/05/05/chp-seeks-weekend-i-...

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/09/14/shooting-in-vallejo-...

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/07/10/video-police-release...

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/08/27/fremont-police-inves...

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Shooting-on-I-880-in-O...

https://patch.com/california/sanleandro/shooting-i-880-chp-s...

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Bay-Area-Police-Crack-...

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/06/03/oakland-weekend...

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/05/09/mother-of-four-kille...

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#26

Post by inferiorhuman » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 7:17 AM UTC

bontaq wrote: post #18

HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

Unfortunately, New York City was built at a time when people rode horses, and its streets reflect that. And you can't just widen a street, certainly not in a city like NYC. You would have to destroy every building on one side of a street, and build new buildings, all for a gain of a few feet. Large megapolises like NYC need to start exploring the concept of 3D streets. Instead of having a single street level, on the…

I mean it sounds like you're proposing something like the failed project to put an elevated highway at 30th st http://www.nycroads.com/roads/mid-manhattan/ There's no reason for it, we should continue removing cars from the roads because then there is no traffic. I think the incoming toll for cars to enter manhattan below 42nd or so, plus removing through traffic on 14th st, are great steps.

I mean it sounds like you're proposing something like the failed project to put an elevated highway at 30th st

How about CA-480[0]? Bringing down the elevated freeway made the Embarcadero a MUCH nicer area to be in.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_480

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#27

Post by djsumdog » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 7:17 AM UTC

NYC needs to dump a lot of work into their rail system, and not slack off in the good times. They keep flipping from having one of the best systems in the US to being plagued by terrible issues, every decade.

Chicago hasn't expanded in a while, but they maintain their tracks, buy new stock and renovate stations. I don't think people appreciate how incredibly important all that maintenance is to the city. I hope Chicago can get enough funding one day to expand and start on the outer loop project, but not at the expense of keeping what's there in good condition.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#28

Post by djsumdog » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 7:22 AM UTC

Whatarethese wrote: post #14

I didn't read the whole article but would this include banning trucks that bring in goods? What about trucks that help residents move to and from the city?

Chicago at one time had an underground tunnel system for transporting goods, but it fell into disrepair, and is too small for moving modern trucks/freight. I think most/all of it is closed off today; although the city still uses some of it.

Singapore's Certificate of Entitlement (COE) system works really well to reduce cars in the city (you have to bid on the license to buy a car, which can run S$30k to S$90k depending on the type of vehicle, time of year you try to bid, etc. .. and that doesn't include registration or the actual cost of the car). But that's a situation where the city is small and .. literally its own country. So it obviously wouldn't work in NYC or anywhere in America.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#29

Post by chroma » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 7:23 AM UTC

inferiorhuman wrote: post #25

chroma wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking public transportation in the bay area is incredibly stressful. I've had people try to fight me. I've had people threaten to stab me. I've had people smoke meth on the same car as me. Hell, last year one of my friends was robbed at gunpoint on bart. If these services were run by a private company, they would be shut down for safety violations. I much prefer cars because it means I don't have to worry about vagr…

Taking public transportation in the bay area is incredibly stressful. Counterpoint: all of the shootings up and down the I-80 corridor, wrong way drivers, sideshows, and road rage. https://www.sfgate.com/news/bayarea/article/Update-4-Killed-... https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/06/25/traffic-stop-in-rich... https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/05/05/chp-seeks-weekend-i-... https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/09/14/shootin…

None of which are things I've encountered while driving. I bet if you ran the stats, you would be far more likely to be a victim of crime on bart than while driving in the bay area. There's a reason all of the women at my workplace drive instead of taking bart. They've tried bart and found it incredibly unsafe.

The only disadvantages of driving are traffic and parking.

Edit: You've edited your comment to add links, and they're all discussing crimes in east bay. I don't think most of the articles you linked to happened in places served by bart.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#30

Post by inferiorhuman » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

chroma wrote: post #29

inferiorhuman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking public transportation in the bay area is incredibly stressful. Counterpoint: all of the shootings up and down the I-80 corridor, wrong way drivers, sideshows, and road rage. https://www.sfgate.com/news/bayarea/article/Update-4-Killed-... https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/06/25/traffic-stop-in-rich... https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/05/05/chp-seeks-weekend-i-... https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/09/14/shootin…

None of which are things I've encountered while driving. I bet if you ran the stats, you would be far more likely to be a victim of crime on bart than while driving in the bay area. There's a reason all of the women at my workplace drive instead of taking bart. They've tried bart and found it incredibly unsafe. The only disadvantages of driving are traffic and parking. Edit: You've edited your comment to add links, a…

I bet if you ran the stats, you would be far more likely to be a victim of crime on bart than while driving in the bay area.

Then run the numbers instead of wildly waving your hands. If you'd like anecdotes I've never been robbed at gunpoint on BART, nor have I ever had anyone threaten to stab me on BART.

The only disadvantages of driving are traffic and parking.

And air pollution, risk of a crash or injury, cost of ownership, parking, pedestrian deaths and injuries, etc., etc.

Edit: You've edited your comment to add links, and they're all discussing crimes in east bay. I don't think most of the articles you linked to happened in places served by bart.

If you check a map I think you'll find that BART serves San Francisco, Oakland, and Fremont.