Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 74 posts

Re: Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

#21

Post by corodra »

shantly wrote: post #9
crazy1van wrote: post #4

The EU subsidized Airbus, which hurt the American company, Boeing. Therefore, all Americans have to pay 25% more for european wines, cheeses, and whiskey. How does this make any sense?

Drops demand for same items, hurting the producers and the countries they're based in, while maybe also diverting consumer money to domestic alternatives (or at least other countries that aren't quite so tariff'd). Right? Not siding with the tariffs, but that's the idea, no?

I'm no expert, but I'd assume it's to make good on other trade negotiations the public isn't privy to. In regards to the like of the extra $9b free up for US exporters to Japan, mostly ag. Complete and utter hidden... on the front page of the ustr.gov site. Takes a real investigative journalist expert to find. I mean, who would ever look on the same site on China trade deals to find negotiations opening up with other countries...

https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/fact-s...

Hurting Scotch means a better chance for the Japanese whiskey market in the USA. Total random speculation on that. There are lots of other products without Japanese replacement. Especially since scotch is really one of the smallest mattering products in that list. Parmesan, I argue, is a far bigger deal and we'll see that effect more. At least for me.

But, to be fair, after looking into trade relations for a while, Trump isn't as insane as CNN and BBC makes him out to be. I don't understand why everyone makes it seem like he's throwing dice and making decisions in a bubble. I'm starting to think he's making short term pains for long term gains. Which, to be honest, is the thing we should always be doing. Losing in the short term for mid to long term gains is not insane, stupid or crazy. Just... you know, sucks for a while.

On top of that, everyone seems to be a trade-deal expert suddenly because they've obviously negotiated with foreign govs all the time. I'm not and don't claim to be like others on HN and reddit. I just see there's more going on than just China and things don't look as one sided as it's being made out to be. But then again, BBC and CNN, and social media agreed, thought China would dump $1+ trillion in US bonds for pennies on the dollar and lose out on the loan leveraging they get to "punish the US"...by bankrupting themselves? Which never happened anyways. Such great "economic experts" who can't figure out supply/demand market dynamics taught in macro econ 101 textbooks. Same folks are commenting on the trade war. So whatever...

Re: Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

#22

Post by rndgermandude »

crazy1van wrote: post #4

The EU subsidized Airbus, which hurt the American company, Boeing. Therefore, all Americans have to pay 25% more for european wines, cheeses, and whiskey. How does this make any sense?

It gets worse. Boing got (indirect) subsidies[1] to the tune of at least $23bln, says the EU (but denies it subsidizes Airbus and most allegations it subsidized Airbus in the past). And the US even used the Echelon system to spy on European companies including Airbus and gave the information to US competitors including Boing (the EU parliament investigation concluded economic/industrial espionage happened, and former CIA director James Woolsey later admitted to abusing Echolon to spy on European companies).

So both companies are claimed to have received substantial "illegal" subsidies.

This isn't Trump's making btw. This legal battle over subsidies started I think in about 2004, so Trump is the third president involved. But of course, he was eager to jump on it and announce those tariffs now, even before the WTO ruling was finalized.

[1] https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2010/september/tradoc...

Re: Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

#23

Post by cobookman »

Bootwizard wrote: post #16
throwaway010718 wrote: post #14

Does the U.S. president claim that the Chinese are paying the tariffs on the EU products too ? I still can't tell if our all tactics and no strategy president understands how tariffs works.

He's running the US like he runs all his businesses: into the ground.

“The US first filed the case in 2004, arguing that cheap European loans for Airbus amounted to illegal state subsidies.“

“The US was given the go-ahead to impose tariffs on $7.5bn (£6.1bn) of goods it imports from the EU following a World Trade Organisation (WTO) ruling on Wednesday.”

The WTO imposed the tariffs against the EU due to a recent ruling.

Re: Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

#24

Post by newnewpdro »

hannasanarion wrote: post #8
asciident wrote: post #3

I think this could be a good moment for us to pause our consumption a bit, and think about buying only what we really need. Not just because of the tariffs but as a signal that we as consumers can pull back when necessary.

Parmasean isn't an extravagance.

I think that depends on how you define extravagance. Actual quality aged parmesan-reggiano imported from Italy is of similar cost to filet mignon by weight at the stores I frequent.

Growing up in an Italian household, I often got in trouble for sneaking chunks off the expensive cheese to be eaten without grating. It was reserved exclusively for grating, or served sliced thinly on special occasions.

Re: Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

#25

Post by meddlepal »

lettergram wrote: post #19
crazy1van wrote: post #4

The EU subsidized Airbus, which hurt the American company, Boeing. Therefore, all Americans have to pay 25% more for european wines, cheeses, and whiskey. How does this make any sense?

This is essentially a WTO fine, per the article... the US won a case dating back to 2005. Regarding the effective price increase, it would likely be shared between consumer and producer. Truly, most of us will just switch from scotch to bourbon until this is cleared up (which is the purpose).

> Truly, most of us will just switch from scotch to bourbon until this is cleared up (which is the purpose).

I'm gonna pass on that, bourbon is too sweet and tastes gross to me. I suspect if you like Scotch then Bourbon is probably a bad fit.

Re: Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

#26

Post by lettergram »

berkut wrote: post #20
lettergram wrote: post #18

Note, This is a WTO imposed fine basically. The WTO sided with the U.S. when it claimed the EU subsidized Airbus with below market rate loans. The US won the case. The outcome is basically this. It’s amazing to me the EUs solution to this is to increase tariffs themselves (at least that’s their threat). It would be much cheaper to just stop subsidizing airbus or reduce it to a level where it’s not undercutting Boeing…

The EU have a corresponding case against the US and Boeing as well. They can also apply tariffs based on the fact they didn't do so last time they won a case against the US and Boeing: https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/29/eu-ready-to-instantly-reta...

... then I guess the bet is Boeing took less aid? Seems like a pretty bold move, with no gain.

Honestly, from Trumps perspective it’s probably a win either way. A less integrated world appears to be his goal

Re: Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

#28

Post by shantly »

lettergram wrote: post #18

Note, This is a WTO imposed fine basically. The WTO sided with the U.S. when it claimed the EU subsidized Airbus with below market rate loans. The US won the case. The outcome is basically this. It’s amazing to me the EUs solution to this is to increase tariffs themselves (at least that’s their threat). It would be much cheaper to just stop subsidizing airbus or reduce it to a level where it’s not undercutting Boeing…

The EU alleges the US does similar things with Boeing and in the past those crossed accusations have been enough for neither side to call the other over it. The EU's proceeding with their complaint at the WTO and are probably pissed off that the US didn't back down (especially if their accusations have merit) and are trying to get the US to drop this without having to wait for their own WTO ruling, by talking tariffs now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44120525

Re: Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

#29

Post by belltaco »

cobookman wrote: post #23
Bootwizard wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's running the US like he runs all his businesses: into the ground.

“The US first filed the case in 2004, arguing that cheap European loans for Airbus amounted to illegal state subsidies.“ “The US was given the go-ahead to impose tariffs on $7.5bn (£6.1bn) of goods it imports from the EU following a World Trade Organisation (WTO) ruling on Wednesday.” The WTO imposed the tariffs against the EU due to a recent ruling.

The US did not have to impose the tariffs under WTO but chose to.

Re: Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs

#30

Post by rob74 »

XMPPwocky wrote: post #27

If the UK leaves the EU while these tariffs are still in place, are they still valid under the WTO ruling against the EU?

EU or no EU, Britain is a prominent member in the Airbus consortium (https://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/uk.html), and that's unlikely to change despite Brexit. Although I wouldn't put it past Trump to ignore that in order to encourage Brexit, of course...
Post reply on HN